What ELSE is wrong with the WT Society and JWs?

by fjtoth 33 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  hillary_step

  Avengers,

  He's gonna destroy Babylon the Great with a great violence. This is not something I said. This is not my idea.

  Well, if you can provide evidence that 'Babylon The Great' was not C1st Jerusalem as many Preterists / Partial Preterists claim, then actually it may indeed be just something that you 'said' and just your 'idea', as it revolves around your own interpretation of scripture. 'Babylon the Great' has had more identities than a thief on the run since the Revelation was penned, but given the fixation that the early Christians had with the abomination of Jerusalem it makes more sense to believe that the Revelation was speaking not of future false religion, but contemporary false religion as understood by the early Christians

  As to dating the Revelation, it was traditionally thought to have been written before 70CE until quite recently, but growing evidence seems to suggest that in fact its authorship pre-dates the fall of Jerusalem. I am working on a paper at present which I have been threatening to post for some while which collates the numerous lines on non-interpretive evidence that the book was penned around 65CE. Like a JW Armaggedon, my paper will be appearing shortly....lol

  Best regards - HS
• 

  logansrun

  While I agree with most of the items on that list, I am going to make a few comments that I feel JWs could justifiably make against your list

  Teaching that true Christianity is an organization instead of a way of life

  JW's would not see a difference in this....the organization is the way of life

  Placing WT literature above the Bible

  I must say that even I have a problem accepting this as a complaint against the JWs. Never at any time have I seen the WT or any of it's publications put their words over the Bible. One may disagree with their interpretation of the Bible, or with the rules they place in addition to the Bible, but I cannot think of one single instance where they have said "the Bible says this...but we disagree and want you to do this." Sorry, if we are going to criticise the JWs, lets be a little more specific than this claim (which I would have to call a half-truth).

  Falsifying the fact that Charles Russell predicted for 1914 the end of the world, not Christ's return

  With all due respect, they have clarified this matter of late...although not very well.

  Lying about a so-called "increase" in earthquakes, warfare, famines, persecution, etc., since 1914

  "Lying?" Maybe a better phrase would be "wishful thinking" or "selective use of statistics." I think the brothers that write their end-times paranoia actually believe the stuff.

  Being quick to disfellowship instead of making efforts to restore persons who have done something wrong

  This is a little subjective. So much depends on the local body of elders.

  Holding heresy trials and disciplinary hearings in secrecy from the rest of the congregation

  And some might rather have their "dirty laundry" aired between just a few people.

  Denying that the JW organization is part of Babylon the Great

  Such a statement would mean that you know who makes up Babylon the Great. Do you?

  Please, don't take this as an attack on your list. Overall, I agree with many of the sentiments expressed. I just like to see arguments that are as fine-tuned as possible.

  Bradley
• 

  avengers

  According to the literature of the WT Society, "Babylon the Great" is the whole body of "false religion", with exception of the Watchtower Society ofcourse.
  Since my "Escape from the WT" I have come to realize that the WT Society religion is just as false as the rest of the religions, thus making the WT Society
  part of "Babylon the Great". Therefore Jehovah will destroy them according to their own prophecies.

  When I published the picture of the WTC being bombed I did not realize that this would trigger these strong emotions. My wish was that it never would have happened.
  What I tried to illustrate was that the WTC never deserved this. I cannot say the same for the WT Society.

  It never was my intention to bomb anything nor to provoke such actions. I have seen young men who were so hurt by this cult that they indeed bombed Kingdom Halls and put them ablaze. I have in my past posts seriously encouraged these people to rather put the WT to rest, not by physical bombing, (this would drive the R&F into the hands of the GB and we don't want that), but by exposure. I think this is working.

  I apologize for hurting fjtoth, I now understand his emotional state.

  I assure you I'm not a terrorist, and I do resent the implication.

  I still think though there's no place on this earth suitable for the Watchtower.check this thread

  Soon perhaps we can celebrate the final dissolution of this manifest evil called the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society.

  Since i got excellent help from the administrators of this forum on how to edit my post I will now edit the part which hurts fjtoth.

  Andy
• 

  herk

  Bradley:

  You seem a bit picky and intent on finding the least excuse to defend the WT Society.

  Whether you are aware of it or not, the WTS does claim that one must be a JW in order to gain salvation. A person has to be totally naive to not recognize that the WTS defines Christianity as membership in their organization. In its mindset, there is no hope for anyone outside JWs, even if the person obeys the Bible and follows Jesus far better than the average JW. What counts most with the WTS is that one must be baptized as a member of its organization. In other words, "Join the club or miss the boat."

  And the WTS does place its literature above the Bible. Russell claimed that his writings “are not merely comments on the Bible, but they are practically the Bible itself.” He also claimed that a person who spent much time reading the Bible without consulting WT publications would probably be misled: “He has a right to spend weeks and years in this way if he chooses, but the chances even then are that when he does light on something he will have it all wrong.” (9/15/1910 WT)

  The Society hasn’t changed. It doesn’t hesitate to say that “the Bible cannot be properly understood without Jehovah’s visible organization in mind.” They claim that they are Jehovah’s “sole visible channel, through whom alone spiritual instruction was to come. Those who recognize Jehovah’s visible theocratic organization, therefore, must recognize and accept this appointment of the ‘faithful and discreet slave’ and be submissive to it.” (10/1/67 WT) Our submission belongs to Christ, not to an imperfect body of sinful and fallible men.

  You found fault with the list because you felt it wasn’t "specific" enough. Yet, you claim that recently the Society corrected its blatant lie that Russell foretold Christ's return for 1914 instead of the end of the world for that year. It would be most interesting to see you provide a "specific" example of where they’ve actually admitted they've been lying about that all these past several decades!

  Apparently you feel as the WT does that lying really isn’t lying. Since the 1940s, the Society has devoted literally thousands of its pages to claiming that 1914 marked the beginning of the last days. It has brought into the discussion every slight piece of evidence available to prove its case while totally ignoring the abundance of evidence that the Society is wrong. But you feel that this is mere “wishful thinking” and not deliberate falsifying of the facts.

  “Wishful thinking” enters in when you claim that only certain local bodies of elders are quick to disfellowship instead of making efforts to restore persons who have done something wrong. The facts are that the Society operates that way from the top down.

  The list refers to “heresy trials and disciplinary hearings in secrecy from the rest of the congregation.” Despite what the Bible teaches against such totalitarianism among Christians, especially towards innocent and defenseless ones, you prefer it. You say, “And some might rather have their ‘dirty laundry’ aired between just a few people.”

  You say, “Such a statement would mean that you know who makes up Babylon the Great. Do you?” I think that you wouldn’t ask such a question if you knew what the Society teaches about Babylon the Great. The list provider was obviously going by that definition, not his own.

  Herk