"Jehovah Has ALWAYS Had An Organization"

by minimus 73 Replies latest jw friends

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  NeonMadman

  The way the organization uses the term "organization" is so broad and generic that it's possible to argue that Adam and Eve were an organization. My father used that argument, and what's worse, he thought it a good one.

  Good point, and it's good to take note of the quantum leap of illogic that JW's take in discussing this subject. If they can establish any sort of organization as being legitimate, even as simple a one as Adam and Eve as a family unit, then they assume that the fact of that "organization" justifies the type of organization that they have - centralized, controlling, and totalitarian.

  I've had JW's argue, "Well, surely there must be some sort of organization at your church." Well, sure there is. We all sit in the pews, we behave in an orderly fashion, one person is designated to speak at a time, there are individuals who have been appointed to handle certain tasks or to function as shepherds and teachers, so, yes - we're not disorganized. But the "organization" that exists in my local church doesn't control all similar churches all over the world. We don't cast out and shun anybody who disagrees with us about anything. We don't issue rulings on matters that are not covered in the Bible that then become law for all members. We don't try to control every aspect of our members' lives. And we don't condemn to destruction all those who are not members of our church.

  So yes, any time people are going to meet or act in groups, there will need to be some sort of "organization." But the organization is merely a tool to get things done, not an object of worship, as with the JW's.
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  Satanus

  Since they don't really know it's history, i would help them out through a simple reverse historical analysis.

  Jws/rutherford <

  Charles russell/bible students<

  Second/seventh day adventists<

  William miller<

  Baptists<

  Anabaptist movement<

  From this point, it isn't clear, as baptists claim to be able to trace a separate lineage to original christianity that is from the catholic church. Anyways, it's quite a feat to show even a partial lineage of god's organisation, what w powerful satanic influences. heh heh.

  SS
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  Carmel

  Would that be "Jesus Inc." which is really the non-profit (prophet) arm of Adam and Eve, Ltd.?

  caveman
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  heathen

  I thought the WT taught that Gods organization didn't appear in modern history until the mass exodus from babylon the great. God according to the WT had to call his people out of babylon in revelation where it says get out of her my people.
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  ozziepost

  It may be of interest to note that after his conversion, Paul didn't go to "the organisation". He writes of his experience to the Galatians and writes:

  "I did not go at once into conference with flesh and blood. Neither did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles previous to me, but went off into Arabia, and I came back again to Damascus. Then three years later I went up to Jerusalem to visit Cephas, and I stayed with him for fifteen days. But I saw no one else of the apostles, only James the brother of the Lord." (Galatians 1:16-19 NWT)

  Note the highlighting which indicates none of "the organisation" that the Borg claims.

  Cheers, Ozzie
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  minimus

  These are excellent comments! We can be organized without having to follow a Pharisaical organization. Jesus condemned the scribes and Pharisees for making up man made rules and requiring the people to adhere to them. Jesus stressed that we must follow the one law of love. That's it! How refreshing!
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  Maverick

  I like to use the Trinity comment I used when going door to door. When a householder would start in on the trinity I would just say, "I came here to discuss the Bible, the word trinity is nowhere in the Bible so let's not discuss it!" The statement God's Organization, or God's Earthly Organization is mentioned nowhere in the Bible so let's not discuss it. If a J-dud brings it up, stop him and ask to see the words in the Bible! K.I.S.S. Maverick
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  rocketman

  Another example of a servant of God who was basicaly on his own was Job.
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  minimus

  Good one Rocketman, Where did Job go for assistance? Why, even Jehovah was staying out of that one. Did Job run to the "organization" for help? NOPE. Even in the first century congregation, there were all sorts of disagreements, whether it be the ressurection or circumcision issues. People weren't getting expelled from the Christian congregation because of their wrong or unclear viewpoints. But any deviation from the ORGANIZATION, merits disfellowshipping.
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  crownboy

  dedalus made a good point about the JW's always inventing some sort of organization, with very scant biblical support. I recently recalled hearing a public talk which addressed the reason why god made the marriage arrangement the way it is (i.e.: men "taking the lead"). The brother was careful not to make any remarks that would in any way make women inferior, and infact explicitly said that men and women are equally capable of leadership, etc. (which a lot of brothers probably wouldn't say). According to him, the reason why god made men the head of the household was because of what he referred to as "the organizational principle", which, according to him, was based on the fact that anywhere in the bible where two or more of Jehovah's people were joined, Jehovah would form an "organization" to help make sure that things ran in a smooth theocratic order, much like he runs things in heaven (apparently). So he said that the marriage union was the smallest form of "organization", with the entire JW corporation being the largest, of course. He said that none of the leaders of any of the "organizations" were better than the people who were/are subordinate to them, but that god chose to organize his people for his own perfect theocratic reasons, and that we should all honor the "organizational principle" on all levels. Of course, not once was the bible directly referenced to butress this all important "organizational principle", the brother mearly asserted, and it was so (no surprise here).

  As for the original topic, I never quite bought the whole "we JW's have always had an organiztion" thing, with Abel apparently being the first Jehovah's Witness. However, I suppose if you define "Jehovah's Witness" loosely enough, then anyone or group could have been one in the past, including the all evil Catholic church .