New Light on the 144,000?

by Ding 45 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • blondie

    Yes, stan, that is one of the WTS most used techniques, just stop talking about it. Two things happen: jws who were born after know nothing, those who come in after know nothing, and many of the jws who lived then have forgotten (conveniently perhaps) or died.

  • dozy

    There are many JWs , including senior ones , who have doubts about the "literalness" of this belief. Ray Franz mentions that the GB discussed making the figure figurative back in the 70's but shelved it in favour of tinkering with the generation.

    But increasingly it looks like nonsense. Even from a basic maths point of view , it doesn't add up. The Society have said there were always anointed from the death of Christ so assuming even a tiny number of 20 per year - that's 40,000 for a start - plus well over 100,000 documented partaking in the early part of the 20th century and many tens of thousands since then.

    As the number of partakers increases every year , they can't all be written off as nutters or emotionally disturbed people like the Society claims. But experience tells us that the Society tends to hold onto its more cherished beliefs for as long as possible , until eventually ( like the 1914 Generation that will not pass away or the literal 7,000 years for the the creative days ) they just become totally impossible to defend.

    Possibly a theological muddying of the waters ( like hinting it may be figurative without being definitive ) might be a stepping stone but as Stan & Blondie have noted , the more likely tactic is that they will just stop explicitly mentioning that the figure is literal and allowing for the total disinterest from the vast majority of JWs the issue will go away.

  • smiddy3

    New Light on the 144,000? these emoticons should be in reverse,sorry

  • punkofnice
    Ding - Someone on Facebook is claiming to have reliable information that the GB is about to announce new light on the 144,000 -- that it's symbolic, not literal.

    The proof of the pudding.....

    We shall see if this has any traction or not.

    The jobos will obediently lap up whatever poison their leaders serve.

  • stan livedeath
    stan livedeath

    no--i still believe the 144,000 is literal.

    just overlapping.

  • joey jojo
    joey jojo

    Are they still publishing the attendance figures?

    Weren't there a few posts here that discussed the abandonment of the yearbook and publishing/ memorial attendance reports?

    Not publishing memorial partakers numbers would go a long way to solving this problem for the GB. Out of sight, out of mind. Future JW's will just say, 'wow, we used to know how many partakers there were- how cute'.

  • waton

    The number is well defined and in the bible. threefold. it can not be changed any more than shutting up that talking snake.

    what is wrong here is wt's cockeyed application. The idea that partaking is a monopoly having a connection to the number.

    what watchtower has to change is the partaking game, to retain the thinnest veneer of doctrinal legitimacy.

  • nowwhat?

    The watchtower can say soon very soon we can expect monkeys to fly out of our butt. And 50% percent will nod their heads and the other 49% it will go over their heads!

  • johnamos

    It is very possible that the 144k are literal in number.

    The problem is, is that the WTS/GB teaches that being a so-called anointed means you are chosen to rule as kings with Jesus for the 1, 000 years. The reality is that all those that will rule as kings with Jesus are anointed (called) but not all anointed (called) will rule as kings.

    There is not a limit on the amount of so-called anointed that get the calling but from all those that are called there is a limited number (144K?) of ones that will be chosen to rule as kings.

    Jesus no doubt chose Paul personally. He was anointed and used by Jesus and yet Paul knowing that he was chosen and being used to preach about the kingdom, etc… he still explained that he was hoping to be chosen for what he referred to as the upward call/earlier resurrection, which is the first resurrection in which those who are part of will be the ones who rule as kings with Jesus.

    In order to be one that can be of the first resurrection and thereby rule as a king, one has to be called and as a called one die as a martyr or live during the time that the wild beast (8th king) is in authority and is given out its mark. A called one during that time will have to successfully refuse the mark and refuse to worship the beast.

    [Matthew 22:14 “For there are many called, but few chosen.”]

    [Philippians 3:10 so as to know him and the power of his resurrection and a sharing in his sufferings, submitting myself to a death like his, 11 to see if I may by any means attain to the earlier resurrection from the dead.12 Not that I have already received it or am already made perfect, but I am pursuing to see if I may also lay hold on that for which I have also been laid hold on by Christ Jesus. 13 Brothers, I do not yet consider myself as having laid hold on it; but there is one thing about it: Forgetting the things behind and stretching forward to the things ahead, 14 I am pursuing down toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God by means of Christ Jesus.]

    [Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and there were those who sat down on them, and power of judging was given them. Yes, I saw the souls of those executed with the ax for the witness they bore to Jesus and for speaking about God, and those who had worshiped neither the wild beast nor its image and who had not received the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand. And they came to life and ruled as kings with the Christ for a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6 Happy and holy is anyone having part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no authority, but they will be priests of God and of the Christ, and will rule as kings with him for the thousand years.]

  • truthlover123

    With the change in the baptismal question nbr 2 - when and if indicated either by announcement or at the next assembly, would this not cause a misunderstanding of the "anointed"- if this is not a spirit anointed organization then would this not cause a huge question of exactly how one becomes "anointed"? Where is this "spiritual" enlightenment coming from? As they say they have?

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