"Apostates " how honest are we?

by closed 64 Replies latest jw experiences

  • closed

    As I mentioned in another post I used to serve as an elder for 2 decades. I was involved in a number of JC. Some I dealt with are good friends now. But some became apostates­čśü And my experience with them made me resentful. Reasons:

    A woman cheated on her husband. She, first time, got involved with 10 years younger guy. After couple of years she - beg your forgiveness-screwed with a bloke she hardly knew in a park. Then she joined one of happy clappings and started to write to newspapers all rubbish. She gave "description " of JC. It was all lie. I know it as I Was on it. She gave all false info on reaction of her husband and children. She stated that husband robbed her although he bought her flat she wanted and gave her good lump of cash. I had 2 more situations when dfs went public to some degree. But there have never been honest picture.

    Conclusion: no doubt the Orgs methods of dispensing information are, well, very questionable. But the way some fellow "apostates" omit facts or just twist them slowed down my fading process.

    I don't want to offend but it is my experience.

  • freemindfade

    There are all type out there dude. Honestly reading cedars story and Paul and seeing sincere people waking up on you tube helped me out a lot. I think before the information age if you were in the organization your impression of apostates was the people outside an assembly screaming and acting insane and in their defense they had very little ways to outlet their frustration. I believe there is a new generation of apostate that are not that way or maybe it's same as ones that have always been there they are just more visible. This is a pretty big generalization of "apostates"

    There are good and bad people inside and outside religion believe it or not. Time to shed the us against them mentality. There is also what we consider bad. The lady you speak of I don't know her circumstances but maybe she married someone because of the organization. Maybe too soon. Too young. Never had enough other experiences. I don't know. But the way your morals are given to you in the watchtower when people are on their own what do they have? It's not a justification but being raised a jw doesn't really equip you morally. It makes you a robot.

  • OneEyedJoe

    There's good and bad in any arbitrarily defined group of people. Try not to define the whole by the actions of one or two. Furthermore, the trauma of living as a JW and then being DFed (vs waking up while still in and leaving after, which is traumatic in itself) is enough to make some people go off the rails in their anger at what has been unjustly done to them. Is it right? Probably not. Are they acting angry/bitter just as the WT says they are? Probably. Is there a completely justified reason for them to be angry/bitter? Absolutely yes.

    One of the bigger realizations that allowed me to wake up was seeing that even if apostates are angry/bitter and that drives some of their more objectionable behavior (latching on to false rumors about the organization, protesting at conventions, being insulting to believing JWs, etc) that maybe they're justifiably angry. Maybe they are bitter apostates, but if what they say is true (i.e. the cult has systematically lied to us to our detriment) then I should be one too.

  • punkofnice

    Big smile as I say this...just in case it comes over as grumpy..it aint. I don't consider myself part of a group or society called 'apostates(tm)'. I am just a bloke.

    I left a highly destructive cult to find freedom. I am just a bloke out there, with no afilliations to any group or 'society'. My point is, each case on it's own merits. There's good and bad in all.

    the way some fellow "apostates" omit facts or just twist them slowed down my fading process.

    I'd venture to say, the uniformity you thought, existed in the 'truth(tm)' you also thought existed in the imaginary group known to the wbt$ as 'apostates(tm)'.

    The corporation 'mind cleansing(tm)' gave you false expectations of the human race outside of the cult.

    Well, that's what I reckon. Cults are well known for promoting 'us and them'.....in reality, no such thing exists. It was the propaganda of the wbt$ that slows a fade.

  • cognac

    Nobody owed you an explanation to begin with. Maybe having to give one slowed their fade... And maybe you should think about what being on a JC did to them and get over your own feelings being lied to. It was really never any of your business to begin with and you don't really know what they went through.

  • nugget

    People are all different. Being a jw doesnt make someone good or bad and neither does someone leaving make them intrinsically good. Many people leave the faith or are thrown out of it and some will be people with values and some will not.

  • closed

    Thanks. I completely agree with you. Nugget. I expect people being "all sorts" outside org as there are all sorts in it. I just wanted to explain that it was bad to listen to lies in and to decide to go out to very similar environment. Just a technicality. Sorry Cognac I disturb your feelings. But situations I was involved with had nothing to do with abuse or lies etc. Belive or not I /we wanted to help - gullible aren't we;)

    I called myself an apostate to stress that I don't agree with many orgs actions and policies. Yea. I am a simple, blunt bloke outside.

  • jhine

    Perhaps that lady thought that she would fight fire with fire .If she had realised how the WT lied and used theocratic warfare she may have just used the same tactics back . In a way she was the product of her JW training ! Doesn't excuse it but may explain it .


  • cognac

    Closed - Really? You don't think you come off as completely self entitled? YOU WERE IN A POSITION TO JUDGE OTHERS. A POSITION YOU SHOULD NEVER, EVER OF HAD TO BEGIN WITH. Nobody, under any circumstances ever owed you an explanation. And what you come away with is that you were lied to? In judicial committees. Where you are judging whether or not they are truly repentant.

    Excuse me while I go vomit from complete and utter disgust.

  • Finkelstein

    I think your going to find any people who are been scrutinized toward their behavior be slightly dishonest, particular when they are fighting for their own appealing self interests and isn't an irony that these ones were once involved with an organization that was conducting itself in inherently deceptive and dishonest tactics , namely the WTS.

    That is why you have to apply open critical evaluation from as many sources as possible to arrived at the best framework of the truth and this may involve listening to outside unbiased resources.

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