Is There a Higher Conscious (page 3)

Mr.Finkelstein

The structured morals of Jesus Christ were made up by men in their imagination of what a Messianic savior would be, one might say out of human consciousness.

cofty

Anna M - I have read the bible in its entirety many times.

If you disagree that the god of the Old Testament - the god and father of Jesus Christ - was not a moral monster then I can only assume you have never read it.

God condones slavery. Slavery is a moral outrage. Therefore I am more moral than your god.

Read your bible before you slander me by calling me a liar.

You assume wrong Crofty. And your definition of morality is your own not God's. Therefore by what authority can you even call it moral, anymore that Watchtower calls its standards moral by allowing none to disagree. But I disagree both with them and you.

And you slander Jesus Christ and his Father.

John 13:12-16

So when He had washed their feet, and taken His garments and reclined at the table again, He said to them, "Do you know what I have done to you? "You call Me Teacher and Lord; and you are right, for so I am. "If I then, the Lord and the Teacher, washed your feet, you also ought to wash one another's feet. "For I gave you an example that you also should do as I did to you. "Truly, truly, I say to you, a slave is not greater than his master, nor is one who is sent greater than the one who sent him.

Matthew 20:26,27

"It is not this way among you, but whoever wishes to become great among you shall be your servant, and whoever wishes to be first among you shall be your slave;

cofty

And your definition of morality is your own not God's.

If morality means anything it involves concern for the needs and well-being of others.

Slavery - the ownership of another human being to be used as chattel - is immoral. Your god approves of slavery.

Kidnap and rape is immoral. Your god approves of kidnap and rape.

Infanticide is immoral. Your god approves of infanticide.

Therefore your god is immoral and so must his son be too.

pistolpete

Jehovah would never approve that which is harmful to those who love him and their fellow man.

Please explain why Jehovah murdered 70,000 of his faithful, loyal servants, which included Infants, young children, young couples, parents, grandparents, because some King took a census. And then forced King David to choose how Jehovah would murder them even after David pleaded with Jehovah and telling him all these people were innocent of any sin.

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5711820856754176/king-davids-three-choices

LV101

Anna Marina - I wasn't even thinking about "Trinity" and didn't intend to be confusing/sorry about that. I never understood anything trinity but recall WT's interpretation of John 1:1 different than the KJV or whatever was used decades ago in protestant churches.

GrreatTeacher

"And your definition of morality is your own not God's." - Anna Marina

That is some kind of tautology right there.

DATA-DOG

We could very well be part of a vast multi-verse. Quantum Entanglement appears to be true. Light can be a particle and a wave at the same time. Reality is affected by observation. There’s Dark Matter, Worm Holes, Oceans under the Ocean... Ancient and mysterious Civilizations being found with Laser Radar in Rain Forests. There’s Fungi that appear to attract animals ( Humans too ) so they can spread their spores. Plants are conscious although not as we traditionally view consciousness. We could be controlled by tiny organisms that make us want to eat certain things. AND...this could be some kind of a simulation..

In short, their is some weird and amazing things out there. Is there a collective consciousness? Maybe...

DD

fulltimestudent

Anna Marina said: "Jehovah would never approve that which is harmful to those who love him and their fellow man.."

So let the mythical YHWH be judged out of his own mouth. Get your bible and read - (2 Samuel 12:10-18 ESV)

"10 Now therefore the sword shall never depart from your house, because you have despised me and have taken the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be your wife.’ 11 Thus says the Lord, ‘Behold, I will raise up evil against you out of your own house. And I will take your wives before your eyes and give them to your neighbor, and he shall lie with your wives in the sight of this sun. 12 For you did it secretly, gbut I will do this thing before all Israel and before the sun.’ ” 13 hDavid said to Nathan, i“I have sinned against the Lord.” And Nathan said to David, j“The Lord also has put away your sin; you shall not die. 14 Nevertheless, because by this deed you have utterly kscorned the Lord,2 the child who is born to you shall die.”"

So David sinned, but will YHWH punish guilty David. NO! old YHWH decides( without even asking David's wives whether they consented to being raped) to punish David's wives, by letting them be raped publicly. Was that an example of YHWHS morals? And, I have not even touched on YHWH's actions concerning the subsequent baby, which surely must count as an act of murder. And did you also note David's actions? During the child's sickness, David acts repentedly, but as soon as the child is dead, David acts normally again. That's barely human.

And can YHWH defend himself against charges that he permitted slavery? Let's see?

On the second issue raised, slavery, most ancient 'cultures,' practised slavery. The economies of nations across Eurasia were slave powered economies. Aristotle (greek philosopher) even argued in his "Politics" that some humans were 'natural' slaves. He further argued that a slave was a "piece of property," and owning a slave was like owning a tool. So you're likely thinking at this point, what's all that got to do with the bible?

The reason you wont find "Jesus" saying 'free the slaves,' is that firstly, from the beginning the Israelites were portrayed in the biblical stories as using war prisoners as slaves, and even selling each other into slavery.

first century CE, the Jews had (Since conquered by Alexander the Great) had become thoroughly hellenised and would have easily seen a 'slave' as an item of property. In fact, during the next few hundred years, the Jewish Talmud set out rules for slaves, and Jewish traders continued for centuries to buy and sell slaves.

So maybe your not seeing the world as Jesus saw the world. He likely thought of slavery as 'natural' - just as Aristotle thought it was natural. (Aristotle does give his reasons for his perspective)

But did that make it OK? It may be true that christian's later spoke against slavery, but it took a long time for churches to act against slavery. So long in fact, that there seems no reason to believe that churches in general were guided by either divine law or divine inspiration to oppose slavery

HowTheBibleWasCreated

If by a higher conciousness you mean string theory or a Grand Unification theory aka the God od Enstein then yes... But a personal god. NO!

Is There a Higher Conscious

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