Why go back to the Old Testament?

by Lost in the fog 51 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • smiddy3

    Because that is the ONLY scripture Isa.43:10-12 in the whole bible that they feel gives them validation for calling themselves Jehovah`s Witnesses and being Gods chosen people among Christendoms religions.

    therefore they alone have the "Truth" so they believe.

    Of course they ignore so many other facts.

    1.The G.B. admitted in their publication the Aid book that the name Jehovah was not the correct pronunciation of Gods name however it was accepted as such because it was the most used and common placed in Christendom.

    2.The actual name "Jehovah" did not appear in literature until the 13th Century when a Spanish monk used the Latinised version of the Hebrew Tetragrammaton ,the four Hebrew letters that represented Gods name in the Hebrew bible the Old Testament and added vowel `s to it ,coming up with JHVH and adding E ,O,and A and coming up with JEHOVAH which was then used throughout Christendom from the thirteenth Century on which is attestable to in many Churches throughout Europe and elsewhere on their buildings with the name Jehovah in stone.

    3. After that scripture in Isa, was written hundreds of years before Jesus Christ came on the scene the Jews never did identify themselves as Jehovah`s Witnesses did they and Jesus when he came on the scene never berated them for not identifying themselves as Jehovah`s Witnesses .

    So that was never the intent otherwise J.C.would have done so.

    4.The ancient Hebrew language never had a J sounding letter that is why some Bible translations do not use J in their translations so instead of Josiah for example they might use y`osiah or instead of Jesus ,Yesus etc.

    So the modern version of the more likely version of Gods name that the Jehovah`s Witnesses recognized in the Aid book was that Yahweh or some such was more likely accurate however Jehovah was preferred because it was more popular ?

    Popular among whom ? they claimed that Christendom was hiding the name of God from everybody so who was the name more popular with ?

    Why Christendoms Scholars of course whom the claimed were Apostates of Christianity .

    And what did Jehovah`s Witnesses do ? They adopted Christendoms preferred name for God Jehovah .

  • Finkelstein

    Yes why go back to try and emulate the social moral standards of civilization that existed 3000 years ago ?

    Oh right that power thing, men trying to harness the power of god unto themselves.

    Why accept this civilization's theology alone and the stories they told about the god they created ?

    The ancient Hebrew nation was just as ignorant of the world in which they lived in as any other settled civilization of that era in human history.

    They were bit more unique in that they wrote or scribe their theological expressions though.



    The hospital was one of the great achievements of medieval Islamic society. The relation of the design and development of Islamic hospitals to the earlier and contemporaneous poor and sick relief facilities offered by some Christian monasteries has not been fully delineated. Clearly, however, the medieval Islamic hospital was a more elaborate institution with a wider range of functions.

    Fulltime student-This is the first paragraph from your link from above. This first paragraph indicates that Christian monasteries were first, doesn't it? Funny, you left that out

  • eyeuse2badub

    The old testament paints jehober as a tyrant and a vengeful god that will kill you if you don't lived by his rigid set of stupid rules. Same with the modern gb of jw's. Scare the sh*t out of them and they will conform!

    just saying!

  • EverApostate
    Jesus never said to write anything down because that wasn't the media 2 thousand years ago. Most people couldn't read even 200years ago, jeshe...Only a limited few could read and/or write.

    So the most important person in the universe, while on the most important mission, never wrote down anything nor left any tangible evidence of his existence and miracles. Faith is Awesome !!

  • EverApostate

    If God's law is everlasting(as you say):

    Can Slavery be practiced today

    Can death be a punishment for working on a Sabbath today

    Can Infidels be stoned to death today.

    Can Unbeleivers be slaughtered

  • myelaine

    dear EverApostate...

    Think about Jesus' audience. They were Jewish people living in a backwater Roman conquered area. They were likely poor themselves and didn't have slaves. Because of the inequality between Romans and Jews, some may have been slaves. What would be the point of condemning slavery to them?

    His message was to live peacefully and condemning slavery to poor people who may have been slaves of the Romans would have the effect of stoking resentment at the very least. This was antithetical to His cause.

  • myelaine

    I don't know how a contemporary Jewish theocracy would run the show, (justice and mercy was always in the hands of the judiciary) but the kingdom of God under Christ's rule is in the future and by all scriptural indication, there wont be any "infidels" to stone. Everyone will be harmonious because that's the way everyone WANTS it to be. When you're just sick of the inequity of this kingdom, the reward is the kingdom of God. Of course, if you're not REALLY into that sort of thing, it shows in that you'll continue to strive against the only One who can deliver that reward.


  • fulltimestudent

    TTWSYF: Fulltime student-This is the first paragraph from your link from above. This first paragraph indicates that Christian monasteries were first, doesn't it? Funny, you left that out.

    Yes! I deliberately did not quote the first paragraph. But. it was not funny at all, TTWSYF! Do christians like you, ever stop to think about why things are written the way they are?

    Let's take a closer look at that first paragraph.

    Quote: "The hospital was one of the great achievements of medieval Islamic society. The relation of the design and development of Islamic hospitals to the earlier and contemporaneous poor and sick relief facilities offered by some Christian monasteries has not been fully delineated. Clearly, however, the medieval Islamic hospital was a more elaborate institution with a wider range of functions."

    The above author was acknowledging that little is known about the (quote) "poor and sick relief facilities offered by some Christian monasteries." And, I did not want to further complicate a difficult research area by discussing the development of Christian monasteries. So let's do that now!

    Strange christian believers were soon evident in early christianity, apparently trying to emulate the 40 days Jesus spent in the wilderness. They began to live in caves, in trees, on top of poles, etc. Later some started to live these sort of lives in small groups (maybe demonstrating that insanity can be infectious - smile).

    St. Pachomius is usually credited with the establisment of the first cenoitic (community-based) christian monastery in 346 CE at (possibly) Tabenna in Egypt. His intention apparently was to allow individiuals who lacked the skills to survive alone in the desert, to live in an organised community.

    You can easily imagine, that in time, some of these monks would need nursing, either because of advanced age or sustaining an injury. So now think of JW bethel homes, some, at least, by all accounts, had 'sick bays.' Can these be called hospitals? Could the similar sick bays, in those first monasteries be called "hospitals?" Maybe now you may understand where the author of the cited text was going when he wrote that sentence. And, why I chose not to discuss that connection. For your punishment for your lack of critical thinking, you can read this explanation now!!!!

    If you want to class a 'sick bay' in a monastery as the equivalent of a modern hospital, go ahead, but I suggest that there is a world of difference between a monastic sick bay and the described Islamic hospital of that article.

    However, even if you accept that monastic sick bay as a hospital, it still does not mean that christians developed the first hospitals, as the subsequent quotations I offered make clear, the pagan Greeks and Romans had developed an equivalent to the modern hospital in the temples associated with Asclepius and known as asclepieions, well before Jesus was a twinkle in YHWH's eye.

    And.by the way, Asclepius's symbol (the rod of Asclepius, a rod with a serpent entwined) is still used as a synbal of medicine, to this day. And the names of his daughters are still associated with aspects of medicine. His daughters were:

    1. Hygieia ("Hygiene", the goddess/personification of health, cleanliness, and sanitation).

    2. Iaso (the goddess of recuperation from illness).

    3. .Aceso (the goddess of the healing process).

    4. Aglæa/Ægle (the goddess of the glow of good health),

    5, Panacea (the goddess of universal remedy).

    But let's back track now and ask the question, from where could these early Christians have gotten the idea of a monastic community?

    St. Pachomius, lived in Egypt, and the Red sea Egyptian coast had strong trade links to India. India was where Buddhism developed, and Buddhists are known to have established monasteries, (as well as a missionary network) from as early as the 4th century BCE. We know that Buddhists were preaching in Egypt in Roman times, and its' easy to imagine that people knew of the concept of monastic communities from their knowledge of Buddhists.

    So it is interesting to read the Wikipedia (for convenience) entry on "History of Hospitals."

    Quote: "Institutions created specifically to care for the ill also appeared early in India. Fa Xian, a Chinese Buddhist monk who travelled across India ca. 400 AD, recorded in his travelogue [5] that

    The heads of the Vaishya [merchant] families in them [all the kingdoms of north India] establish in the cities houses for dispensing charity and medicine. All the poor and destitute in the country, orphans, widowers, and childless men, maimed people and cripples, and all who are diseased, go to those houses, and are provided with every kind of help, and doctors examine their diseases. They get the food and medicines which their cases require, and are made to feel at ease; and when they are better, they go away of themselves.

    The earliest surviving encyclopaedia of medicine in Sanskrit is the Carakasamhita (Compendium of Caraka). This text, which describes the building of a hospital is dated by the medical historian Dominik Wujastyk to the period between 100 BCE and 150 CE.[6] The description by Fa Xian is one of the earliest accounts of a civic hospital system anywhere in the world and this evidence, coupled with Caraka’s description of how a clinic should be built and equipped, suggests that India may have been the first part of the world to have evolved an organized cosmopolitan system of institutionally-based medical provision.[7]

    King Ashoka is wrongly said by many secondary sources to have founded at hospitals in ca. 230 BCE[8]

    According to the Mahavamsa, the ancient chronicle of Sinhalese royalty, written in the sixth century CE, King Pandukabhaya of Sri Lanka (reigned 437 BCE to 367 BCE) had lying-in-homes and hospitals (Sivikasotthi-Sala) built in various parts of the country. This is the earliest documentary evidence we have of institutions specifically dedicated to the care of the sick anywhere in the world.[9][10] Mihintale Hospital is the oldest in the world.[11]


    One lesson to take away from this discussion is that all the evidence in antiquity points to a sharing of information from differernt sources and traditions. There is no 'long line of a true religion' in hiustory.

  • Drearyweather


    That's some wonderful research that you have done. In fact, I still remember from my school days about the rich history of medieval islam often called as the Islamic Golden Age. However, I still stop short of ascribing full credit of the body of medieval knowledge and development to Islam as many islamic scholars spent a great fortune in translating the scientific knowledge of the conquered civilisations to Arabic. In fact, when Arab conquered Persia in 637 AD, most of the Nestorian Christian's were spared and they later played a role in the Arab culture. In fact, the Wikipedia states that For a long period of time the personal physicians of the Abbasid Caliphs were often Assyrian Christians.[30][31] Among the most prominent Christian families to serve as physicians to the caliphs were the Bukhtishu dynasty.

    What are your views on this? Do you feel that Islamic knowledge can be called as the assimilation of previously known knowledge? Was Medieval Islam a concoction of conquered civilisations?

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