Is Satan the good guy?

blackout

IF I were to believe in the bible (which I am starting to totally disbelieve), I like the idea that satan was actually on mans side, and when you look at what he told Eve he WAS actually telling the truth, it was god who lied.

This used to cross my mind as a witness but I would very swiftly dismiss it as demons affecting my thinking. But think about it, Isn't Satan on mans side? Didn't he say we could rule ourselves if given a FAIR chance? IS GOD giving us a fair chance, with all this control and influence of the governments (as told by the JW's). How do we know that god is the good one and satan evil? We cant prove which of them are doing the bad things and which are doing good.

What do you think?

edited to say: woohoo I am no longer a newbie!!!!!

m0nk3y

I think this is a really good point blackout. I don't have anything that comes to mind as far as horrible horrific stuff that satan has done to man ... but then theres all those time God has killed many many people

m0nk3y

TheSilence

you may be interested in reading anne rice's memnoch the devil (i think i have the spelling right) in which she uses the popularity of the vampire chronicles to raise exactly that speculation. its been a while since ive read it, but if i remember correctly the devil states his case over a large portion of the book. its an interesting read if one doesnt view the reading of it as sacrilegious.

jackie

Abaddon

I don't believ in god, satan, or santa come to that...

However, my view of the account of the Fall in the Bible is that God, with foreknowledge, set a test that could not be passed by the subjects. Then, when they failed the test by deciding something for themselves, God allows them to attempt to govern themselves BUT makes them imperfect, subject to disease and death.

I think that is unfair. Half the problems of mankind are caused by the fact we don't live long enough to act responsibly.

Add to this that, not content to sabotaging any attempt at self-givernance, God attacks mankind with linguistic warfare when they get their act together, and it is easy to see the Biblical Satan as a freedom fighter against a despot, and the Bible as a despots propoganda tool, at least with modern eyes.

I've not read that particular Anne Rice book, it sounds fun. 'Good Omens' is another intersting satirical look at apocolyptic psychology (Neil Gaiman and Terry Prachett).

greven

Well, what strikes me as odd is that people that believe the bible see it as a book written by God. Yet at the same time they believe Satan has not written any book as of yet. So at best we only know the story from one side. Satan does nothing to defend himself against the caims of the bible.

Like abbadon, I find it very easy to see satan as a freedom fighter. He speaks many humanistic thoughts: man can rule himself, man can overcome problems without help from the outside etc etc.

And his words came true, eventhough the bible claims it was a lie. If there really was a question as to man ruling himself it is God that keeps cheating the game: makes us mortal, makes us imperfect, intervenes countless times: the flood, sodom and gomorrah, Babel etc.

Satan has according to the bible never miraculously saved or destroyed people. God did. I have never read an account in wich Satan slaughters people. it is God that sends plagues, leprosy, lightning and other stuff to smite people even innocent ones. So who is the bad guy here?

Greven

Abaddon

Oh, if we get into things that God has done as compared to things that Satan has done from a revisionist point of view if gets even more fun...

God sets up a test for his human creations that he know they will fail
Satan says; All humans have the right to decide what they will do for themselves.
God responds by cursing mankind, and thus completely changing the chances of mankind succesfully fairing well without him.
God gets pissed off that despite him cheating, men have built a big tower. He cheats again, confusing their languages.
God gets pissed of with world affairs, so destroys the entire world, including innocent children, save a handful of people in boat.
God forces a man to almost sacrifice his son to prove his faithfulness, when he knew all along he would do it.
God wages warfare against the Egyptians to bring about the release of the Israelites, but actually hardens the ruler of the Egyptians heart so he keeps them, with resulting misery and death for innocent Egyptians, including many children who die the night of the last plauge.
God sets up a set of laws that approve violations of human rights, including slavery, sexism and homophobia. He also sets up laws like 'Do not punish a child for it's fathers sins' that he himself disobeys.
God gets pissed off with the Israelites, and curses them to wander the desert for 40 years, cauing misery to innocent people who were not involved in pissing him off.
God supports the ethnic cleaning of what is now Palestine/Israel. This includes direct divine action against enemies, and telling the Israelites to kill everyone in certain cities, apart from virgin girls who would no doubt later be raped as slaves without rights. When one indigenous tribe try to avoid being destroyed, they are made slaves.

... and as we know, it carries on from there...

Who does this god guy think it is anyway, and can it be forced to appear at the Hauge once they've finished with Slobodan Milosovich?

blackout

Hang on! I know one bad thing Satan allegedly did.

He asked god about Job being faithfull to god and then God said, go ahead test him out, do your durndest and so satan did a lot of nasty things to Job.

But god said he could and also dont forget, this WAS written in gods propaganda book.

Valis

Ummmm...yeah...duh! *LOL*

Sincerely,

District Overbeer of the "Devil's Advocate" class

m0nk3y

Don't treat us like stupid heads valis, we had to wait on someone to turn the dimmer switch up so the light could get brighter .. jeez ... stop running ahead of us you worker of lawlessnessness

m0nk3y

Introspection

Oh come on guys, why even entertain that way of thinking? It doesn't have to be a matter of believing or not, you know. Given what we know about psychology, isn't it pretty clear that to view these things in a way with personal characters is simply a matter of projection?

Is Satan the good guy?

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