Is Russia "right" about presecuting Jehovah's Witnesses?

by iliketreasure 40 Replies latest jw friends

  • Corney


    What a silly justification. Is it really necessary to say what's wrong with your arguments?

  • OrphanCrow
    Steel: Freedom of speech isn't freedom to yell fire in a crowded theatre. The WTS is built on insulting, annoying and slandering every other Christian denomination and destroying lives and families in the process.

    The org has been poking the bear for a long time now. Sometime back in the late 90s, leading up to the Moscow hearings in 2000 or so, the Russian JWs were directed to engage in a blitz distributing pamphlets that were highly critical of the Russian government.

    They poke the bear, the bear swipes back, and they scream "persecution!"

    *I can't find a link to the pamphlet that was was the same old stuff..

    "We are the special ones who God likes and all who oppose us are going to get killed"

  • eyeuse2badub

    As long as the government doesn't start "persecuting" the elite 8 in their Warwick compound they don't really care! JW's are an American religion so other countries have no problem "persecuting" them>

    just saying!

  • Old Navy
    Old Navy

    Statement from Cofty:

    The topic is not the international policies of the USA it is the disregard for personal freedoms in Russia.

    I believe that all in Russia have the personal freedom to do no harm to others.

    Discouraging behaviors, beliefs and teachings that do indeed harm others should also be a freedom for those in Russia.

    I wonder if your attitude might change somewhat after actually visiting Russia and the Russian People?

    The new, surviving Russia is very, very wise.

  • Nathan Natas
    Nathan Natas

    Corney asked, "Nathan Natas, I guess you justify the Holocaust in the same (sick) way, don't you?"

    Yeah, your powers of discernment are stunning! You'll be contributing LOADS of valuable content here, I can tell.

    "Fire up the ovens! JWs comin' in!"

  • Brokeback Watchtower
    Brokeback Watchtower

    What a bunch of bleeding hearts for the Watchtower Corporation's unjust persecution by a foreign government's legal system. Boohoo !

    The way I look at it I hope every government bans these brain leeching cults like the Watchtower Corporation and stop them dead in their tracks, they deserve it regardless because they are a blight on the general public with their advertising bull shit tracts that claim answers for all mankind's hardest problems.

    I will personal be glad when they can no longer put their trashy cart at libraries all over the place where I live.

  • Corney

    NN, it's not my fault that your previous comment can be, without a single change, used even by anti-Semites. I've just shown its logical and ethical fallacy and didn't compare the current anti-JW campaign and the Holocaust.

    OC, wow, they distributed pamphlets!? So awful. They deserve gulag!

    Old Navy, speaking about how Rusia is wise, do you mean Turchak - one of the highest-ranked official in the Russia's ruling party and the Council of Federation (akin to the US Senate), he ordered atempted murder of a journalist because the latter called him "shitty" in a blog? Or maybe the Ukrainian war, with 13 thousands killed and millions refugees? Or maybe Kadyrov? Or MH17?

    Surely, I can say many good things about Russia, its people and even government, more than any Russophile here. But I will not do this in front of people whitewashing state terrorism.

  • OrphanCrow

    I just gotta say...for a "politically neutral" organization, the WT/org sure knows how to make their existence into a political one. And the response to their behavior doesn't promote religious conversations - it promotes political conversations.

    And Corney...the pamphlet distribution is only a small part of the WT's behavior. I only mentioned it to show the WT's ignorance towards their members. Just like in the past, they will hang out the innocents to dry while the org reaps the rewards.

    The org was taxed in Russia ( they claim that they paid tax on the Admin Center) and they, along with every other religion in Russia, was restricted on evangelizing. Which they ignored. Putting restrictions on the JWs just doesn't work. They ignore everything and anything that they want to and then cry foul when things don't go the way they want it to. And what the org wanted in Russia was real estate. They have lost that now.

  • Corney

    Ok, for clarification: Watchtower is politically neutral (it doesn't stand for or against any political force or agenda) and isn't a political organization, it's a religious one. In the same time, it's surely not "separate from the world" and sometimes, defending its interests, involved in activities that could be deemed political.

    Also, your narrative (something like "the were warned but ignored everything") is distorted. The org wasn't taxed, only some properties were because they belonged to foreign entity. Unconstitutional anti-missionary law<*> was enacted in summer 2016; the anti-JW plan was adopted not later than in 2014. In 2014-2016, there were multiple cases with the same scenario: police conducts raids under false pretext (like "we suspect that the stolen furniture can be stored in KH" in Stavropol region); the banned literature is planted; the local organization is banned. I very closely followed those events, read hundreds of published documents and know what I'm talking about. Add ridiculous customs cases, add hate propaganda campaign.

    As to the last statement, I doubt it's based on something other than prejudice. If the org was concerned only about property, why did and does it fight for Korean conscience objectors, Witnesses prosecuted in Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Azerbaijan etc. - and also in Russia?

    <*> Also, you wrote that JWs were restricted like "every other religion". That's incorrect. The anti-missionary law was applied only against Protestants, Hare Krishna followers, Orthodox independent groups, some Muslims in non-Muslim regions and other religious minorities. The Russian Orthodox Church routinely and openly violates that law, but it wasn't applied against it.

  • stillMS

    @Corney - agree with you 99%, except for calling 'The Russian Orthodox Church' a church - when it's a FSB/KGB propaganda department, in fact.

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