I'm not so sure a bigger awakening is going to happen anymore

by bradford 44 Replies latest jw friends

  • steve2

    Hi Bradford, doses of reality can be confusing. We harbor the notion that, because TTATT makes sense to us, surely it will also make sense to the friends. We learn that reasoning and "common" sense are not universally valued by everyone and - shock, horror - things that disturb and worry us, do not have that effect on others.

    It's hard, and at the same time, it's the way life is, whether in JW organization or elsewhere.

    I recall as a JW wrongly concluding that all I had to do was appeal to newly-interested ones ability to "reason on the Scriptures", and they too would realize JWs had the "truth". I remember how deflated I felt when they did not see things the way I did.

    As a then JW, I was much, much younger then - yet, even today, I can catch myself getting caught up in thoughts of, "Surely the friends can see how desperately erroneous the concept of the overlapping generation is!" But of course, like you have observed, for many JWs it's business as usual.

    It can feel deflating when others do not see things they way we do - but that's just the way it is. And JW organization is one very, very small and tiny slice of what happens in a humungous world. Not everyone sees things the way others do...despite protests and wads of "evidence".

    So, what I do is accept that there will NOT be a massive "awakening" and/or falling away from the organization.

    Instead, based on years of data collected by the organization itself (and printed in the Yearbook), there will continue to be a slowing down of growth in Westernized countries. Baptisms overall are going down, and in many countries, the numbers of new publishers are barely keeping up with population growth (a big change from the 1960s through 1990s).

    As time passes, more and more Witnesses do less and less and the organization simplifies the requirements of the part- and full time ministry.

    No, there will not be a massive apostasy from JW organization but there is - and will continue to be - an encroaching, enveloping, stifling rise in membership apathy.

    The organization knows full well that it has more to be concerned about over apathy than over apostasy.

  • baltar447
    There won't be a mass exodus, but I believe that they've lost most of "this generation" (lolz) of young people. They aren't staying. Eventually we will start seeing dramatic decreases even if they lie and pad the numbers.
  • The Marvster
    The Marvster


    I took me a little while longer to realize that many just do not care what their religion teaches, one way or another.


  • redvip2000

    There won't be a mass exodus, but I believe that they've lost most of "this generation" (lolz) of young people. They aren't staying. Eventually we will start seeing dramatic decreases even if they lie and pad the numbers.

    I agree. It won't be an exodus, but instead of gradual phasing out. The older ones will die out, and young ones are less and less interested in religion, especially the ones that restrict them from having freedom. And of course a percentage will continue to wake up.

    I do think however that if for some reason there is a significant decline in numbers during a period of time, and somehow the Borg doesn't hide this, it could set off a chain reaction, where families could see a good number of their families leaving and decide to also follow the trend.

  • Simon

    Most people don't care about the doctrine too much. They are in it for the community and social aspects - friends and family.

    It's only when they or someone they know and care about is personally mistreated that they really wake up. Yes, some leave when the doctrines change but I don't think it's as many.

    Common sense tells us that even the WTS isn't able to directly screw up too many individuals lives all at the same time.

    That's why there will not be a "mass exodus", just a constant churn of membership.

  • freemindfade

    1. Old guard is passing away

    2. Next generatons aren't reaching out

    3. The very young are leaving

    4. Informaton is more available and easy to access and the kids these days are savvy to that.

    5. Science and archeological discoveries daily discredit the bible and the more we learn about our universe the smaller the idea of a middle eastern contrived yhwh seems.

    Knowledge vs superstition. Because it's a captive religion it's big and hard to leave. Hopefully each generation is less captive and it starts dying

  • freddo

    Round "our way" - south U.K. - over the last ten years I have noted:

    1) Dropping average meeting attendance from about 90% of publisher number to 75% of publisher number (despite being two meetings instead of three). More vacations.

    2) Very few coming in from outside. Those that are are low hanging fruit. Not mentally or emotionally "right."

    3) More ex-elders. One congregation nearby has six serving elders with five ex elders sat in the audience. Another has eight elders with four exes. 2 elders resigned or removed in one cong. in 2014.

    4) In one hall in the last two years 1 older single/divorced brother in his 70's has conspicuously and deliberately "gone inactive" - I don't know why. I older sister in her 60's has definitely disassociated (announce as no longer a jw but the rumour mill says she felt not enough emphasis on jesus and "being made to feel guilty for not doing enough" every CO visit). Another one in her 40's posted her pictures of herself in an Xmas party hat on facebook and she was called up by elders and she disassociated or was DF'd - not sure which)

    None of these were ever zealous types but nevertheless three in two years and not for the traditional "immorality".

    Slow steady decline. And this during the 2013/2014 let's all get new bibles and celebrate 100 years razzmatazz.

    This was before the ARC and the overlapping generation! Let's hope it gets worse.

  • LongHairGal

    I tend to agree with the original poster that there is not going to be a bigger awakening among people there!

    If the one hundred year anniversary of 1914 didn't open their eyes, or if the 1995 changed teaching on Generation did not at least trouble them OR the constant begging for money, the blood fractions, child abuse scandals, dumbed-down meetings and literature plus the untrustworthiness of many JWs didn't do it - then there is no hope!! They are truly asleep and do not want to be awakened. Let them slumber.

    Maybe some here and there will leave, but that is it. Others may slow down, but won't leave because of family and friends OR business dealings!

    However, I am truly sorry for any more who are taken in and are harmed by not getting an education or career and not planning for the future because Armagonnageddum is 'right around the corner'. I know somebody like this. He is over 40 and it is a heartbreak to his family!

    Also, the caliber of newer people is not like it was 30 years ago and I would not want to be around ANY of them! All in all, it's a mess.

  • the comet
    the comet
    I don't see a mass awakening in the cards. Like a few other posters said..apathy is what will get them. The organization has ways to combat this, not as many brothers reaching out? More videos and talks beamed in from HQ for meeting parts. Lower the requirements for "special" service, drop the pioneer hours. Child baptism, make them captive before they know what's going on. In the end though they can't win..it's just going to be a long slow decline for them. I don't have a ton of hope that people my age (mid 30's) and older will wake up, my hope is for the children today. Most of the people having kids today take the religion about half as serious as their parents, hopefully their kids continue that trend.
  • DesirousOfChange

    i think more and more are going to give it less weight in their lives, even if they stay in for the long hall.

    There is already mounting evidence of that IMO. I recently discussed with Ms. Doc that NO ONE REALLY LIVES LIKE THEY BELIEVE THE END IS SOON. The elders in our former Congs are not pioneering to save lives before the GT hits. Nor are their wives. Two of hte younger ones have recently built new homes. I had a conversation with one elder who was about 40yo and he was "bragging" about how he plans to build is 401(k) and IRAs for his retirement. WTF?? "That doesn't sound like you are planning on the Big A anytime soon." I'd love to have recorded his speechless stammering. So I helped bail him out: "Live like it's coming tomorrow but plan like it will never come." Yeah. Gee! He was happy that I understood what he meant.

    Sure, there might be a few delusional zealots who are living life simply and pioneering and are all Rah! Rah! Rah! about all the new lite, etc., but most are simply worried about their lifestyle and the social aspect of being a JW.

    The Org has been losing 2/3 of born-ins for decades and I would expect to see this percentage increase among younger JWs. They aren't going to want to repeat in their lives what has happened to their aging, infirm (or dead) parents. They know how to access the info that is right at their fingertips. They may at best, stay "in" physically by showing up for meetings & social gatherings etc, but they aren't going to live their lives for the Cult. And I doubt they will be big on their donations so the cost cutting and begging will have to continue and that might cause some of the older ones to question things.

    But a mass awakening? Won't happen!


Share this