by czarofmischief 32 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Mummification used to be the rage amongst the well-to-do
I might have gone for a mummy suit but I saw "The Mummy" and found out they stick a tool up your nose and pull your brains out then place them in a jar for safe keeping. eww.
lol@stinkypants but you forgot stink! stink And rott
My dad was cremated two years ago. His ashes were in a cardboard box, held by a family member for over a year. At that time, at my suggestion, several got together and got rid of them in a way agreed upon by all. My father was not in those ashes. His soul departed when he took his last breathe, and the heart monitor flat-lined. I don't know where he is. Some days, I feel like he's right beside me....
It's my belief that we have a soul, and this soul is from our creators. We live and die, through many existances, to live and experience life as a human being from every facet available. We learn our lessons, we move up the ladder towards that plateau that leads us back to where we came from. Maybe we get our alien life form back, in all it's perfection. Maybe we have choices then, that we can't even conceive of.
I don't believe that our human demise is the absolute end of us as a lifeform. Most of us fear dying and death because we don't wish to leave this life as we know it; we don't want to leave our loved ones. No matter how bad living life is, losing that seems to be something we all worry about. And, yet, it seems death is as natural as birth. It's all we know. We live. We die.
Maybe death is what we have to give, in order to get our "other life" back.
Well that depends on who died. Ok, that was stupid.
I can only believe what the evidence compels me to believe. I can not rely on fear or warm and fuzzy feelings to differentiate between true and false beliefs. So far there is absolutely no evidence of any type of afterlife. I only believe in life before death. Anything beyond would just be a bonus... but I'm not counting on it.
rem
Well that depends on who died. Ok, that was stupid.
I'm a little bit worried about that one.hmmm
Well I suppose I should try to clarify some things.
1) First, if a ballon is deflated, it does not its self lose wieght. The combined weight of the ballon and air together will change. What I am saying is actually quite simple.
2) When the brain waves stop, it is true that it is because the brain stops transmitting them. But, the energy cannot be stored in lifeless brain cells.
At death, The energy that exists as brain waves actualy is released. Where it goes can only be speculated. And I did not suggest that this was magic. To compare the brain to a computer that stops working is okay if you are trying to make an analogy. I do not think that all electricity is in fact a soul.
3) I do not have specific details of the study I spoke of. So you can choose to think what ever you like. I heard about it through discussion with someone I have lost contact. I really wish I knew more details. I seem to remember that the patients were coma patients, and hospice patients. Kind of like when someone signs his body over to science. Sorry I don't have actual facts about that.
3)A life after death experience may be able to be imagined, this is true. But, actual medical death-revival is documented. I happen to be related to such an individual. It's hard to say because so many people may only be haveing a dream experience? thats possible. Our brain is quite powerful. But its interesting to me, that so many have a simular dream.
4) The reason I am dismissive of the soul dying when the body dies is because it is my opinion. My opinion is based on what I choose to believe. I choose to believe in my faith in God our creator.
5) I was not athiest bashing. I was talking about Jehovah's Witness'. It "seems" that they do not have to worry about any thing if you don't live right. Either you are one of the 144,000 , or you come back to a perfect earth, or you just cease to exist. If you cease to exsit, You don't care about anything because your not there. So "party like it's 1999". Maybe I am wrong, but thats what it seems like to me. I work with a dub who feels this way, thats what made me think of it.
6) You draw a distinct line between yourself and I because you say you don't believe in imposibilities. Really it is the same thing that I said stated a different way. I said I believe in posibilities. What I ment by that was that anything is posible. What I did not mean was that I though that anything was imposible. I also realize I could be completely wrong about everything.
Just because I think or belive something doen't make it true.
Lb you have it wrong, again.
It is 72 got it? 72 vestal virgins. I know what a virgin is. What is a vestal virgin?
I don't understand this "EXTRA virgin olive oil either. What is an extra virgin?
Outoftheorg
1) First, if a ballon is deflated, it does not its self lose wieght. The combined weight of the ballon and air together will change. What I am saying is actually quite simple.
I could be wrong on this, but I would assume that a filled balloon would weigh more because of slightly increased airpressure within the balloon caused by the tension of balloon itself. This would mean there is slightly more air inside the balloon than outside, thus raising the weight. Again, I could be wrong. Intuition is usually useless in these physics type questions.
2) When the brain waves stop, it is true that it is because the brain stops transmitting them. But, the energy cannot be stored in lifeless brain cells.
At death, The energy that exists as brain waves actualy is released. Where it goes can only be speculated. And I did not suggest that this was magic. To compare the brain to a computer that stops working is okay if you are trying to make an analogy. I do not think that all electricity is in fact a soul.
The energy is, indeed, stored in the cells. The energy is released when the cells actually break down and become food for other critters. There is no evidence of any energy being released at death.
3) I do not have specific details of the study I spoke of. So you can choose to think what ever you like. I heard about it through discussion with someone I have lost contact. I really wish I knew more details. I seem to remember that the patients were coma patients, and hospice patients. Kind of like when someone signs his body over to science. Sorry I don't have actual facts about that.
This experiment was done in the early 20th century by Duncan McDougall and has never been replicated. Followup experiments in animals have shown no weight loss after death. Even if there were a measurable weightloss after death, this would not be evidence of a soul. This is an example of a Christian Urban Legend.
3)A life after death experience may be able to be imagined, this is true. But, actual medical death-revival is documented. I happen to be related to such an individual. It's hard to say because so many people may only be haveing a dream experience? thats possible. Our brain is quite powerful. But its interesting to me, that so many have a simular dream.
There has been much research done on NDE's - especially by Susan Blackmore. There is absolutely no evidence that NDE's are glimpses into the afterlife. There is much evidence that NDE's are the result of edorphins being released in the brain during times of great stress, the inhibitory action of nerve cells, and the brain trying to create a stable model of reality when normal sources of input (the senses) are disrupted. The universality of the experience is explained by known reactions the brain has to certain stressful conditions. There is no need for a spiritual hypothesis to account for NDE's.
4) The reason I am dismissive of the soul dying when the body dies is because it is my opinion. My opinion is based on what I choose to believe. I choose to believe in my faith in God our creator.
Some people choose to believe what is supported by evidence. Most people don't.
6) You draw a distinct line between yourself and I because you say you don't believe in imposibilities. Really it is the same thing that I said stated a different way. I said I believe in posibilities. What I ment by that was that anything is posible. What I did not mean was that I though that anything was imposible. I also realize I could be completely wrong about everything.
Just because I think or belive something doen't make it true.
Very true. Thus the importance of objective evidence to test our beliefs against reality.
rem
Edited by - rem on 27 January 2003 18:4:55
I am not talking about enegy that can be burned or broken down. Yes you are correct. a decomposing body gives off it's energy much the same as when we eat a steak. I am talking about electrical impulses which travel through you brain spinal columb, and nervous system. This type of energy is not stored in lifeless tissue. As far as the experiment goes, like I said , I am sorry I don't have details. It was not the same one you mentioned though. You can say what you like about it I suppose since I didn't bother to write down sources during my conversation. I don't think it would matter if I had. Yes your right, there is no hard evidence that what you call a NDE can prove an afterlife. I was not speaking of near death, I am talking about life after death. Clinical death, in a hospital setting. I don't believe there will ever be any way to prove this. So this disagreement could hypotheticlly go on forever. I understand all of you explanations. They make sense. I just have a different point of view. I believe ojective evidence is a good thing. There are some things though that can not be proven or disproven.
I am not talking about enegy that can be burned or broken down. Yes you are correct. a decomposing body gives off it's energy much the same as when we eat a steak. I am talking about electrical impulses which travel through you brain spinal columb, and nervous system. This type of energy is not stored in lifeless tissue.
Yes it is! You seem to have some idea of brainwave energy as some sort of mystical pseudo-Star Trek type force. It's not. It's simple electrochemical energy. It obeys all the same laws of physics as any other type of energy
As far as the experiment goes, like I said , I am sorry I don't have details. It was not the same one you mentioned though.
You've no dates or details but you know it wasn't the one rem mentioned? How do you know?
You can say what you like about it I suppose since I didn't bother to write down sources during my conversation. I don't think it would matter if I had.
Yes, it would. It matters a lot whether you can back up your claims with evidence. Maybe not to you, but to those of us who don't arbitrarily pick and choose their beliefs, evidence is paramount.
Yes your right, there is no hard evidence that what you call a NDE can prove an afterlife. I was not speaking of near death, I am talking about life after death. Clinical death, in a hospital setting.
Are you saying that when someone is technically dead (by certain definitions) but not so much that the doctors have given up on him, God has already whisked him off to the afterlife? Does such a person lose weight when they "clinically die"? Do they regain the weight when they're resuscitated?
I don't believe there will ever be any way to prove this. So this disagreement could hypotheticlly go on forever.
Only if you're right! if I'm right, it's got another 70 or 80 years at most!
I understand all of you explanations. They make sense. I just have a different point of view.
Which is fine, in itself. It's only when you try to defend that point of view with bad science or unfounded assertions that I have a problem.
I believe ojective evidence is a good thing. There are some things though that can not be proven or disproven.When something can be neither proven nor disproven, it is prudent to assume the simplest explantion is true. A car could be powered by invisible elves, but if it appears in every way to be powered by an internal combustion engine and appears to obey known scientific and engineering principles, then it's absurd to imagine a supernatural element without good reason to do so.
