A poll of sorts: How long have you been a "fader" for?
I'm curious about the following:
1) How long have you been a fader for?
2) How often do you still get pressure from congregation members and/or family to return as an active witness?
3) What is the longest period you have ever known anyone to successfully fade? A successful fade in my view, would be someone who has faded for a period of time but no longer receives any pressure to return to active service (completely left alone).
4) If you have been a fader for more than two years, do you fear you would eventually have to face DA or DF?
5) As faders, how many of you are being treated as if you were DF'd/DA'd?
6) Have you faded rather than DA'd due to the possible loss family or is it because you have no network of friends outside the Org?
7) If you consider yourself a fader how many meetings/assemblies/ field service groups do you still attend on average per month?
8) As a fader do you feel that the Org is completely powerless over your life?
I have been paying a lot of attention to the forum members who are fading or contemplating this option vs. DA and I would like to put it into a statistical format if I can.
All your input, help and answers would be greatly appreciated, thank you folks!
1. Been out in an inactive state for 12 years.
2. Was pressured the first few years by my adult JW daughters , but I don't receive too much pressure if ever now. One of my daughters wrote me a " pressuring ' letter in early summer of 2015 - but that's because she's having a baby.
3. I know several people on the board here who have faded out of sight for about 20 years- but to never receive any pressure to " go back " to the WT organization- you'd have to move to the Arctic, a remote island, or the moon.
4. I don't fear getting DFed anymore- because I refuse to talk to any elders. The elders already tried to DF me in 2007 ( 4 years after I faded ) on trumped up false charges- I stood up to them and threatened them with a lawsuit if they DFed me. WT legal told them to back down and they overturned my DFing and I won my appeal of my DFing. They don't like dealing with people who stand up to them.
5. Some of my extended JW family ( my mom & dad & brother ) still keep contact with me, but some of my JW family treats me like I'm DFed even though I faded. So it's a mixed bag depending on how fanatic the JW is I'm dealing with.
6. I've faded due to the fact I want to keep a relationship with my older mom whom I am really close with. AND the hope that I will have an opportunity to assist my adult JW daughters to see TTATT. And I also faded so as to hopefully not be cut out of the family inheritance or will.
7. ZERO meetings or assemblies for 12 years now. Proud of it.
8. Yes, I feel the organization is completely powerless over my life- however- that doesn't mean that I can throw caution to the wind in dealing with my older JW elder dad, brother, or my JW mom. I'll still be respectful , yet require they show me respect in return.
Here's the deal- sure I could disassociate if I wanted to- but to me then it shows I acknowledge the WT Society's rules of engagement - and I do NOT acknowledge their rules of engagement. I play by my own rules. IT's a control thing for me. I feel that over the long haul I can do more good for my still in JW family by continuing as a faded ex-JW who might be able to share TTATT with my adult daughters, perhaps even a older JW sibling or two as time goes by. Plus there is the " inheritance " factor. So for me anyway in my situation it makes more sense to stay inactive. For other people it may be right to get DFed or to DA themselves- but everybody's circumstances are different- these are just my personal circumstances. Hope that helped your survey. Peace out, Mr. Flipper
Thanks Mr. Flipper! Very insightful.
started dimming after the "Superior Authorities" reversal, the 1960s.
I faded 15 years ago and I have never stepped into a Kingdom Hall since that time.
I faded then because I thought I would want to keep speaking with JWs, but since then, found I really don't want to be around them much. I get contacted here and there by JWs I know, but as time goes on, this is less and less. (My last contact from someone out of the blue was just last week as a matter of fact.) I have minor chit chat with them still and it is pleasant enough if I happen to run into most of them around town. My parents and immediate family themselves faded many years ago, so that's a moot point for me. So, fading worked for me well in that way. I was able to wean myself away from the religion without having to feel total abandonment during that time.
I stay faded now because I like having taken the power away from them. I feel I am beating them at their own game. They can't outright shun me as a DF'd or DA'd person, but of course many "mark" me as a weak person. Still, there is no reason for them NOT to talk to me and I sometimes force the issue to see where it will go. It's fun watching an elder I didn't particularly like squirm to pretend to be friendly to me because he "has to", but would rather not be around me at all. If a get treated rudely by someone, I ask them why they are being that way. "Is that any way to treat a weak brother who needs the spiritual help from a mature Christian? I need your love, not your judgement..." Of course, these people never really loved me when I was in, so I know they certainly don't now. But I enjoy seeing how they will react to the corner they have painted themselves into by pretending to care about me. I feel I can convict them in their phoniness every time since I have never given them reason to treat me badly. I like this because in the end, I really don't care what they think about me any longer. It's sort of like what happens when you grow up and return to the school you left, where the teachers there no longer have any power over you. It's fun just being yourself to people who used to control your life, but now have to respect you on their own level.
So being faded gives me the power, and gives me an opportunity to speak a mild version of TTATT to individuals who I think can take it. It's my way of witnessing to the Witnesses. This is the main reason I stay faded and remain anonymous on ex-JW boards. This is especially so since I have published two books about my life as a JW, and as a Bethelite.
I write about the issue of fading in my book "Escape from Paradise" and how difficult it can be to pull off. But unlike Paul Simon's "50 ways to leave your lover", the are only 4 ways to leave the JWs:
...and for some, death may be the easiest way.
1) How long have you been a fader for? Mentally walking out the door for a decade, physically out for about four years now.
2) How often do you still get pressure from congregation members and/or family to return as an active witness? I no longer get pressured, but I used to receive notes showing that (obviously to them) I had committed a sin but should come back, or that I shouldn't allow someone to stumble me, that sort of thing. And always, the notes shared scriptures intended to steer me on the right path. Same story as many on this site have related, years as a pioneer but never did anyone ask how I was doing, or did I need help. They only cared that I was not attending meetings.
3) What is the longest period you have ever known anyone to successfully fade? A successful fade in my view, would be someone who has faded for a period of time but no longer receives any pressure to return to active service (completely left alone). I don't know any successful faders from my area but I've been left completely alone for several years now.
4) If you have been a fader for more than two years, do you fear you would eventually have to face DA or DF? No as I don't talk to them. In fact, they could have formally announced I was DA but I wouldn't even know.
5) As faders, how many of you are being treated as if you were DF'd/DA'd? I don't really know if I am shunned because I don't attempt to associate with anyone in my old congregations, and as a single mom I was never much included in the social circles of the congregations. I have extremely minimal contact with one adult child still in but they are tightening their grip on that person, such that contact has been reduced to almost a shunning level.
6) Have you faded rather than DA'd due to the possible loss family or is it because you have no network of friends outside the Org? I faded in order to maintain family contact.
7) If you consider yourself a fader how many meetings/assemblies/ field service groups do you still attend on average per month? Zero. I became almost physically ill the last time I went to a meeting, so I left. Never went back.
8) As a fader do you feel that the Org is completely powerless over your life? They are powerless over me personally, but they control an adult child so in that way they have power.
SSC, I've often wondered these same things and it will be interesting to read your results, although many on the board may not be able to share detailed answers as it will reveal too much about their personal situations.
1) 2-3 years
2) once every few months. Only from elders who just want to check in and "make sure everything is ok"
3) my fiend. 10+ years. He's fallen of the organization radar. Only his folks pressure.
4) DA yes. Done plenty to be df'd. But what they don't know won't get me there.
5) family treats me as df'd. Maybe a little less but not much. Just on technicality. Congregation just cautious. It's awkward for them because I'm social and have people over and get close to them to its messes with their head I think.
6) I know if I DA it's final. I'm not coming back at all. So don't really want to out mom through it and I have some very close friends around the country that I don't want to alienate. Mostly I don't da to keep wife from being alienated.
7) 2-3 Sundays. Stopped doing midweek meeting. Assemblies still go with wife. Just for her.
8) I'm about 95% but closer to letting go of that 5% every day.
1. About 1 year 10 months
2. Rarely, usually elders that want to do their duty, but after a few minutes I put a kink in their armor and they quickly retreat. I kind of enjoy that.
As an elder for many years I will say this. When one of the members fades, it is a rare thing that elders go hunting for that fading one. 99% percent of the elders have way too much going in their lives for them to be on the watch out for faders. Only 1% are crazy enough or have too much time on their hands to chase a fader. That’s why if you decide to fade, move to another congregation across the city, preferably another language, and more than likely you can fade with ease. The new congregation couldn’t care less if you show up at the meeting or not. It’s not like they are real shepherds that really care.
The only way a fader gets a bullseye painted on their forehead, is usually because some family member or friend brings it to the attention of the elders. Otherwise the elders would never know. They are too busy preparing talks every week, collecting time, KH maintenance, secular work, their own families, conventions with all the stupid arrangements, CO visits, etc. Elders have way too much on their plate. That’s why when you fade, you’re worst enemies are your zealous wife, your kids or worse, your husband who happens to be a MS or Elder. If you are single your close friend will turn you in immediately. Zealous parents can also be your worst nightmare if you fade.
But Elders-----they really couldn’t give a Shi** They rather you leave them alone. That’s why nobody wants to be an elder these days, it’s a pain in the butt. Especially with the tons of faders these days, it’s a nightmare to be and elder. You won’t have a life.
3. I know lots of people that left for unexplained reasons. Never knew why, maybe they learned ttatt.
4. Na! I know all the tricks to Judicial Committees plus I’m aware of a lot of dirty laundry among the elders. Hell would break loose in my Old Kingdom Hall. Maybe some would even go to jail or at least be on the 6 o’clock news. It's a catch 22.
5. Everyone talks to me, no one shuns me but I hear some gossip about me from time to time but usually by those who have a reputation for gossiping.
6. I faded because I wanted to do research and was so busy researching that when I woke up, it didn’t really matter to me to be a fader. Now that I am fully awake I kind of like the idea of knowing what I know and enjoy planting seeds of doubt on the jws. Sometime they frustrate me but sometimes I am pleasantly surprised.
7. I attend no meetings at all and never will again.
8. Yea they have nothing, nada, they’re a bunch of morons. They’re as deluded as I use to be, poor bastards.
Thank you so much for the input folks.. Hopefully once I have enough respondents and I put all your information into an easily referenced format so future fader hopefuls will be able to get a quick and clear idea of what they can expect.
1) 6 mos
3) My baptized uncle successfully faded from age 27 till his death at age 42.
5) Not shunned, but treated like "bad association." I don't get invited to anything anymore. If I saw someone in public they'd still say Hi.
6) Don't care about any "friends," but some of the immediate family obeys the DF/DA arrangement and this is a factor.
8) Yes, bc they are still controlling family and prevent my freedom of speech.
Please publish your results when you have them! I love stats.