Black reparations

by LoneWolf 33 Replies latest jw friends

  • LoneWolf
    LoneWolf

    Hi, everyone.

    A week or so ago someone posted on the subject of Black reparations and asked what our opinion was - pro or con - and why. Now, I'm not going to claim that I'm an expert on the subject, plus, I'm white, plus, I'm a back country red-neck (of the Jeff Foxworthy stripe ), so I suppose that most people will be asking themselves, "Whot the heck is HE going to say something for?"

    Well, the truth is that country red-necks are as badly misrepresented in public opinion as most other groups in the country. Heck, I've personally known BLACK rednecks, and found them to be the salt of the earth. Most of them I'd trust with anything I had, including my daughters.

    But I find in my case that just sitting by and not doing something when others are down and needing a hand simply drives me nuts. I've got to do something to try to help, and it makes no difference whatsoever who, why, what color, or any other distinction. But doing "just anything - right or wrong" usually does more harm than good, so I usually take some time to study the situation, including the background, etc.

    I've had many black friends, and have tried to shut up and listen enough to get the meaning of what they are telling me, and this has gone on for years. Finally, about a year ago, I gave in (I'm a reluctant writer) and wrote a lengthy treatise on racial prejudice. I sent it in seven installments to William Raspberry, the black university professor and newspaper columnist, whom I'd had a little correspondance with. So far, there's been no response, although I'm not sure that it got through to him. Section 6 covers black reparations, among other things.

    I realize that asking someone to wade through it (It's lengthy. After all, you can't begin to do it justice in 25 words or less.) is asking a large favor. However, I would deeply appreciate some feedback. The opinions of those who are black would be especially cherished. I hope that those who do will be able to see that I am not writing with the attitude that I am an "instructor" on the matter nor am feeling superior to anyone. This is from the heart, and very genuine.

    I don't keep track of who is black or white on this board, as it makes me no difference. But as I recollect, I think Stinkypants (How did you come to pick that name, LOL!! It reminds me of a long-hauler I know once whose C. B. handle was "Dirty Toilet Paper". Nobody needed to ask why, as that's the way all of us feel that society is using us.) and Teejay are and I respect the opinions of both of them. Hopefully, both will respond. I'm not sure who else is, but all are welcome, black or white, or anything else.

    Here is Section 6:

    Racial Prejudice

    Hello, William --- this is Section 6:

    Tools Needed to Combat the Situation

    ITS NOT SUFFICENT TO JUST TREAT THE CAUSE

    While it is true that a great amount of progress has been made in the gaining of greater opportunities for blacks, yet that progress seems to have stalled and the levels of frustration are building on all sides. We are probably closer to a race war than we have ever been. To me, that indicates we need to refine and modify the approach. How? My suggestions follow, but I need to express a concern of mine first.

    It bothers me a great deal that some will read what I have written and say to themselves, with some justification, "Look at this guy! Hes saying that racial prejudice is all in our heads!"

    I ask those who would be so inclined, to please cut me a little slack here. I by no means wish to imply that racial (or any other) prejudice is simply a matter dreamt up by the fertile imaginations of those with martyr complexes. Its not. Having vivid memories myself of being held upside down by a kid three times my size while the rest of the school taunts me due to my faith, of having my wife shot at by those wanting to run us out of town, of seeing my brothers thrown in prison for their faith, and many other similar things, tells me loud and clear that it is not.

    But I do mean to say that we have a situation here not unlike the one where a person has been infected with botulism. Even after the infecting bacteria Clostridium botulinum has been eradicated, the waste products they leave behind continues to do further harm until they are removed as well.

    Such experiences as those weve been speaking of here leave one with an enormous amount of emotional and psychological baggage that needs to be dealt with, and unless it is dealt with in a decisive manner, those experiences will become the defining moments of our lives. I may have been a victim in the past, but I do not wish to live my life as a victim.

    I flat refuse to grant someone else the power to define what I am or what I will eventually become. This is my life, not theirs. Consequently, I make those decisions myself. If there are those who object to that, tough. They can blame well get their butts out of the road, or get them stomped under.

    But how does one go about such a thing? Perhaps an even harder question is how does one work up the strength and courage to hold such a front in the face of the worlds scorn?

    And --- how do those of us who have managed to conquer the effects of prejudice reach out and help those who are still suffering the effects of it? These are the problems we are facing now.

    THINGS NOT TO DO

    Many times the secret to the solving of such a problem is found in the past. Knowing the mechanics of an injustice can indicate where the antidotes are as well as enlighten us as to those "cures" that look good but only exacerbate it instead. In the light of the previous sections, lets point out a few of them.

    a. To hate the persecutor does more harm to the hater than it does to the hatee. Giving in to that temptation is to lose, tragically and permanently. Any semblance to a normal life will be very difficult if not impossible to attain. Do we wish to hand victory to the bigot on a silver platter? If so, then hate him. He now controls us.

    Plus, there is the danger of misinterpreting someones actions as hate when it is not. If we do that, we lose any potential friendship we may have gained and transform them into an enemy. Who can afford that?

    b. What about anger? Is it appropriate? You bet. But --- anger is like fire. It can kill us just as easily as anyone else. It is a powerful motivator, but must never be allowed to get out of hand. Otherwise, again, weve shot ourselves in the foot, and the cackling of our tormentors will be ringing in our ears.

    c. What about monetary compensation? Undoubtedly, there are circumstances where such are appropriate, such as accidentally throwing a baseball though the neighbors plate glass window. But there are crimes in this world where there isnt enough money in the universe to atone for them.

    If a psychopath were to break into your home and rape and kill your wife and children, would you allow him to get away with it if he paid you $5,000,000? If you did, what would your neighbors think of your value system?

    In this case, an entire race was proclaimed less than human, as being merely a glorified farm animal without the same human attributes that everyone else possesses. If you had lived 200 or 300 years ago under that system and could somehow be resurrected and speak to the youth of today, what would you have them do that would fulfill your inmost yearnings?

    Would you have them gain all the money and power in the world and make everyone elses life as miserable as yours was?

    Or would you rather they use the one gift that you gave your all to preserve for them --- your genes and chromosomes and the life that goes with them --- and prove once and for all time that you were a human being in the finest sense of the term? The gift you passed on to them is as high of quality as any others existing. How would you feel if they were ashamed of it? If I were black, this would be a labor of love and joy, and I would glory in it.

    To accept "compensation" is to imply that the money received is of equal value to what was lost. It is to sell even their memories into slavery. It will also cost you the respect of all who look on, and merely prolong the effect of the psychological waste products left over from slavery.

    d. What about the Jesse Jackson approach? Good --- with one fatal exception. He teaches victimhood right along with it. They are, of course, victims, and some sympathy is called for. But if that sympathy is overdone or misconstrued, it can remove the motivation to grow until the prejudice gets transcended. It also tends to emphasize the hopelessness of things and cuts down on a persons courage to try. Do you wish to allow someone else to have the power to define what you are? Then seek sympathy.

    e. Then we have Al Sharpton. Sure, he motivates some blacks, usually in a negative way. But thats nothing like the way he motivates whites. To use a western metaphor, he supplies repeating rifles and firewater to the Indians. Just one of his escapades will double the number of bigots overnight.

    f. But lets not forget Louis Farrakhan. To be honest with you, Im a bit angry with that man. He has the leadership, speaking ability, and charisma to be another Nelson Mandela, and heaven knows we need more like that. If only he would drop his own hatred and militancy, for they ruin it.

    "But," many will retort, "this is all beside the point. Prejudice is simply wrong and needs to be wiped out." In large part I must agree with them. (Refer back to section 2 for my reservations.)

    How? Weve been heaping shame and condemnation on the bigots for some forty years now and they havent changed at all, even getting worse in some ways, for it is impossible to shame those who have no shame. More importantly, the sense of futility within the black community is still strong. Here again lets look back in history to see if we can find an answer.

    Remember Edward Jenner? When he gave the first vaccination to the boy James Phipps in 1796, I think we can safely assume that he had no such grand ambitions as the eradication of smallpox. That was simply a desperate attempt to save lives. It worked, and his idea was refined and adopted worldwide.

    Now that worldwide campaign has accomplished the seemingly impossible. It no longer exists in the populations of the world. (Dont ask my opinion of a few of the worlds arsenals keeping some of it in reserve. Sweet innocent folks like you shouldnt be subjected to that kind of language.)

    The successful destruction of one of the worlds greatest killers was accomplished by the simple method of making the worlds population immune to its ravages, one person at a time, until finally there was no place left for it to live.

    Im suggesting that we utilize that same method now. But what would we use? What will it take?

    CHARACTISTICS OF THE TOOLS NEEDED

    It will have to be something that accomplishes two things at once. First, it will have to encourage those that are down and demonstrate what is possible in a manner that reaches beyond the brain and extends into the heart. They will have to know, and want, and believe that its possible to get out of the valley of shadow. They need to move into new territory, to go beyond prejudice, for as long as they concentrate on that, they will remain there.

    Secondly, it will need to be something that reassures others. If those activities raise other peoples fears, then they are counterproductive. Other people dig in and arm themselves under those conditions and become armed camps, or they will take steps to reduce the perceived danger by suppressing those they view as dangerous. Look at the actions of the KKK, etc. after the Civil War. Look at the Egyptians concerns about the Israelites. (Exodus 8:8-22)

    What will do that? Well, look at the simple and beautiful humanity of a Bill Cosby. Observe the dignity and integrity of a Sidney Portiet. Enjoy the beauty and wit of a Felicia Rashad. Learn from the class (and yes, the brass too) of a Lena Horn. And lets not forget the grit and determination of a Mugsy Bogues or a Spud Webb.

    What bigot could ever point a finger at those people and claim that they are somehow less than human? The only thing they would accomplish is to make themselves look like the utter fools that they really are. They would be laughed and scorned out of town. But there is something even better. Some will hesitate to point their finger to begin with, as such qualities will make them realize just how wrong they really are.

    We need to emphasize to the young and the downtrodden that they have the same genes running in their veins as these people do. They need to believe in their heart that they have the ability to do those things and more, if they have the courage to reach for them.

    BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF HISTORY

    What else do we need? How about historians who are capable of expanding the written record to include the context of the times as well as the dry facts of what happened? Im not speaking here of a revising of history. Im saying that former times can be understood and gaining antidotes for the problems left over from them can be better facilitated by understanding the thought processes of the times. Lets illustrate:

    I think that few people would dispute that both Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson were intelligent men. Yet few could reasonably expect them to understand how a computer works. Why? Because mankinds knowledge of technology had yet to advance that far. This principle holds true for all facets of human knowledge. One in particular that we should consider here would be heredity.

    A SPECIAL SUBJECT

    The concept of heredity is old. Archeologists have found a 6,000 year-old engraved stone in Chaldea that traced various traits through five generations of horses. Early Greek philosophers, including Aristotle (384-322 B.C.), thought blood was the basic element of heredity. Aristotle believed that blood flowed from parent to offspring, carrying hereditary traits. Such phrases as "bloodline", "blue blood", and "blood relative" reflect his ideas. (See World Book Encyclopedia under "Heredity")

    The accepted and established scientific belief for centuries was that all kinds of things were attributed to heredity. In our own grandparents day it was widely believed that suicide or immorality was a disgrace to the entire family, for it was proof that the bloodline was defective. Although we have made much progress, even today we are still trying to figure out what is and is not dependent upon heredity.

    Can you picture trying to have an intelligent discussion with Aristotle about stem cells, DNA, RNA, X & Y chromosomes, and the like?

    Likewise, in Thomas Jeffersons day the accurate knowledge of such things was primitive compared to what we have now. I would suggest that his ambivalence toward the subject of slavery is more likely the result of a lack of accurate knowledge rather than hypocrisy, as the theology, science and statistics of the day indicated that the black race was inferior.

    Look at it in this way: If, less than 60 years ago Hitler was still trying to figure out which race was supreme, why should we be surprised that there were misconceptions on the subject 200 years ago?

    ISOLATIONISM AND ITS EFFECT

    But lets crank in another factor. By and large, people of that day didnt associate with other kinds of people like they do now. Germans stayed in Germany. The French stayed in France. Chinese stayed in China, etc., etc. All were armed camps hunkered down in order to protect themselves from the world. Each nationality had the regrettable but perfectly human conceit that told them that they were "The People", the best, the holiest, the most advanced technically or morally or in some other way. When the European nations started colonizing the world this was the rationale they used, figuring that due to their superiority, they were advancing the cause of all humanity by introducing their "superior" thought and methods.

    But there was an unexpected result. For these nations to rule others, it became necessary for them to get to know the people themselves and why they acted as they do. Some, like the opportunists, would use that knowledge for only selfish reasons. Others, though, would begin to realize that their preconceived ideas and prejudices were wrong. Unfortunately, the first would get established quickly. It would take time for the second to amass enough strength to make any difference.

    The movie, Anna and the King, is a marvelous study of this conflict. It also illustrates beautifully how the king himself realized that the true enemy was not so much the British or the French themselves, but the perception that they had of him and his people. He tried hard to influence that perception.

    But now lets move this whole concept to the Americas, for if ever there was a case study of the above principles, this is it.

    The opportunists came first, quickly enslaved the natives, and built entire economies on the backs of those they considered inferior. Soon they ran out of natives, for either their operations got too big and/or the natives died off due to maltreatment and disease and left them without enough labor. Entire populations became extinct. Now what?

    Sure, they could conscript the poor of their own nation, but doing that had a distinct disadvantage. If they were mistreated too badly, the authorities back home would come to know of it and take action. These were, after all, their people, and were a known quantity.

    How much better to use people of another race, from another part of the world that was practically unknown, with their own unique languages and customs that made them seem backward and unimportant to those who didnt understand them, and who had no one to speak for them. (Remember the example of the city slicker and the country hick in Section 3? Look how right now all aspects of country [hillbilly] life is ridiculed in all media, despite the fact that most country folk do things as a matter of habit that city folks think are impossible.) The Africans, unfortunately, filled that bill almost perfectly. Then there was an additional advantage. The Africans had a better resistance to the tropical diseases that had killed off so many of the Native Americans.

    It was only after this arrangement had been established for a few hundred years that a unique experiment came into being. It seems that the very diverse peoples of the American colonies decided to create a government whereby all men were proclaimed equal. This was done, not so much for idealism, but in the necessity of banding together in order to withstand Britains demands. In doing so they didnt want to find themselves playing second fiddle to others of the group.

    But all thirteen of those colonies were established by and for white people. One could safely assume that if Orientals, Africans, or Native Americans had established one of them, they would have been excluded from the arrangement. Why? Because all of the authorities of the day, whether governmental, scientific, or ecclesiastical, thought of themselves as the nth of human creation. Everyone else was inferior. Therefore in their view, they didnt deserve the consideration usually accorded normal human beings.

    It took nearly 80 years before enough people came to realize that these authorities were wrong, and took action to rectify the matter.

    How did they come to that realization? By closely associating with one another so that they could observe it for themselves.

    The reason this is so important is that this understanding tends to disarm the hostility between our peoples. Those problems occurred not due to hatred of one for another, but due to a lack of knowledge of one anothers qualities and value. As our peoples gain that knowledge, those problems are gradually straightening out one step at a time. Its just that there are still many steps to go.

    So again, Im not speaking here of the revising of history. Im saying that we need to look deeper into it, to realize and record the phenomenal courage and ingenuity that the Africans had in those desperate times. Lets use the setting painted above to reexamine one of the controversies of today:

    A PRACTICAL EXAMPLE

    Only in the last few years has the question finally been settled as to whether Thomas Jefferson had an affair with his slave girl Sally Hemings. DNA analysis indicates that he did. Since then she has been portrayed as the poor, innocent, utterly helpless sexual slave of a dirty old man. My bet is that she would be absolutely outraged by that depiction. Why?

    Lets look at the situation a little closer. Jefferson was married ten years to his wife Martha and loved her dearly. Upon her death, his grief was so deep that he became a virtual recluse for some months. He vowed to never marry again, and didnt.

    Sally was much younger than he was and was his slave, yes. But it appears that she was also his wifes half-sister, and she would be about as close as he could possibly get to the woman that he had loved. The trouble is, given the customs of the times, it would be forbidden for a man to marry his slave, especially for a man in his position. Therefore it must be kept secret.

    She was also beautiful, intelligent, traveled, and privy to his concerns and problems. That begins with the one closest to his heart, his children, as she was their caretaker. In his loneliness, it would be a natural thing to turn to her.

    Theres another reason to believe it was something more than an older man dallying with a young girl. Its thought that he had six children by her. Few philanderers would spend that much time with one woman, and would have long since gone on to someone new.

    In addition, if Sally was merely Jeffersons sexual plaything, one could hardly expect his daughters to view her with anything but contempt. History indicates that was not the case.

    Yes, Jefferson was troubled about the question of slavery. He was against it, and yet he still held slaves. At the same time, he felt that the black race wasnt as capable as the white. When considering the level of knowledge available then, the wonder is not his ambiguity, but that he had the insight to question the conventional wisdom of the day at all.

    Given these factors, it brings up a question. How did he get that insight? Was she a helpless girl being molested, or was she a young woman who realized her opportunity and was using her beauty, wit, and opportunity to influence one of the most powerful thinkers of her day as to the value and intelligence of her people? We know that the idea of freeing the slaves grew over the next 60 years until it finally came true. How much of the foundation did she lay by using that influence? Ill bet the Bible book of Esther had special meaning for her.

    Who would not be proud to have such an ancestress?

    What a story a good historical novelist could weave around those facts! Think of what a movie director such as Stephen Spielburg could make of such circumstances! It would have the scope and depth of another "Gone With the Wind." How many other stories are out there just waiting for someone to tell them?

    GOALS TO STRIVE FOR

    The perception that slavery indicated one race was inferior to the other is utterly false. It is another myth that hangs on from earlier times and has no more basis in fact than does the idea that a family member committing suicide indicates a defect in the bloodline. This needs to be taught and illustrated in countless ways.

    The progress of knowledge needs to be shown so that it can be understood easily. This will contribute to a "big picture" or "pattern" with which we can overlay the whole situation, and will clearly demonstrate the progress that has been made. More importantly, it will also define our goals and suggest the next steps and the ways and means of accomplishing them.

    We need to demonstrate that the opportunistic mentality exists in every society, race, language, and nation on earth, and that most peoples are guilty of the same crimes.

    Those (especially black leaders) who teach that the black race cannot succeed without cheating need to be put on the spot by other blacks. Simply ask them the question publicly: "Are you suggesting that the black blood lines are inferior?" Then let it hang in the air.

    Above all, we need to realize that when fighting each other, we are fighting the wrong enemy. Ignorance is the enemy, especially that ignorance that is within ourselves.

    There is much more that could be mentioned that would promote this change of perception in our peoples. However, this is meant to illustrate the type of things that are needed and the goals that need to be reached. I fully believe that many others could come up with better ideas than I could to reach those goals.

    A TRUE STORY

    I have six children ranging in age from 39 to 15, all by the same woman. How this came about is a story that most people would say could only happen in a romance novel. There are five girls and one boy. We enjoyed doing the unusual, like climbing active volcanoes or having barefoot races in the snow at 20 below zero.

    I remember one sunny day my oldest daughter was wading in the warm lagoon on the western side of Alaskas St. Augustine Island (Its in Cook Inlet, 40 miles west of Homer). She suddenly let out a shriek and did her best to climb to the nearest star. Coming back down, she instantly let out another and went right back up. I was floating on a log nearby and almost fell off from laughing so hard. Shed stepped on a flounder buried in the sand and landed on another when getting back to earth from her first flight.

    Needless to say, there is little in sibling conflict that I have not seen. One such incident happened about 20 years ago. The two oldest girls were back from Quebec and were visiting us along with their two closest childhood friends. Our third daughter, Judy, was around 13 and definitely a young lady, but she hardly felt equal to her older sisters and their friends.

    We were visiting the Oregon coast and the four older girls decided to go swimming in the waves. That it was February and the temperature was around 45 degrees didnt matter in the slightest. After all, waves were meant to swim in, right? Judy took one look and turned green with envy. She came to me.

    "Dad, would you tell them to let me play with them too?"

    I knew exactly how she felt, but knew also that her suggestion was the wrong approach. After thinking for a few seconds, I answered, "No."

    "Let me explain why," I went on. "You want to be equal to them and be included in their activities. That is good in itself, but if I do that, I wont be making you equal to them. Ill be making you superior to them in that they will have to treat you special and in a way they dont treat each other."

    "If you want equality and to be included in their activities, then you must actually be equal. Notice something now: Did any of those girls ask permission of the others to go out there?"

    She shook her head.

    "Thats right. If youre going to be equal with them, then you must have the confidence to do what they do. Just go. Join in with them. Dive in the waves and scream right along with them. Splash them and let them splash you right back. Dont make them feel like they have to treat you any different than the way they treat each other."

    She listened carefully to my words, then nodded and though I could see she was afraid it wouldnt work, turned and headed for the waves.

    Forty-five minutes later all five girls came back in, shivering and blue with cold, but giggling and on cloud nine. Theyd had a ball. As Judy passed, she gave me a glorious smile and whispered, "Thanks, Dad."

    William, there are millions of us white people that would give anything to enjoy the companionship of our black brothers and sisters. But we can only do so much. You folks need to do the rest, and it will take courage to do it, even as it did for my daughter. Many of the things Ive mentioned above are designed for that purpose: To help them gain that courage and self-confidence.

    Next: A Conversation --- How, Who, What, Why, When, and Where.

    Til then,

    Tom

  • Yerusalyim
    Yerusalyim

    I stand squarely against the idea of reparations. Here's why. MY FAMILY DIDN'T COME TO THE US until 1914. Regardless of wheter it's governement or private sector reparations I will pay the bill either with my tax dollars or in the price increase I have to pay for goods and services. A LOT of americans fall into this same category. Why should I be punished for something my ancestors didn't do.

    Further, will those seeking reparations also go over to Africa and ask the tribes that sold their ancestors into slavery for reparations?

    Reparations, like the quota system vaunted by many civil rights folks, continually re-vicitmizes African Americans and others. This "victim" mentality stops some who are a minority from attempting to excell.

    Just my humble opinion.

  • metatron
    metatron

    Reparations?, No!

    Affirmative Action? Yes - but not based on race.

    The truest, fairest measure of status in America is wealth. This is , first of all,
    an economic culture.

    If anybody is poor, they get should get special consideration.

    Oprah, Bill Cosby, and upwardly mobile blacks don't need - or deserve -
    Affirmative Action. Poor, downtrodden folks in the ghetto do, along with anyone else
    that's broke.

    metatron

  • MegaDude
    MegaDude

    Reparations doesn't change a mindset or a poverty consciousness. You give reparations and the people who receive them will be exactly the same afterwards. Reparations is a scam, pure and simple, concocted by greedy lawyers who want to get wealthy off a new legal scheme.

  • bigboi
    bigboi

    I don't support reparations anymore, at least not in the form of a monetary payment to individuals descended from slaves.

    I defintely think that reparations insome form should be considered. We give billions of dollars in aid to other countries every yr while poor ppl in urban communities are left in crumbling public school systems, inadequate housing( in some cases none at all), stifling unemployment and just disenfranchisement. Many of these ppl are black and the descendants of slaves. Most have lived for the most part under the thumbs of a system that has discriminated against them continually in one form or another even after Reconstruction, Jim Crow, and the Civil Rights movement. All of this encompasses much more than the simple fact that Blacks in this country have been discriminated against or that they were once slaves. Much more than that, what we have in the experience of one group of ppl is the sustained, systemic flouting of the basic American principles that every immigrant that has ever risked life and limb to come here has counted on to make a better existence for themselves and their prosterity.

    In his preface to the 2001 one re-release of Race Matters Cornel West sums up the experience of Black America quite succinctly, imo.

    Black people in the United States differ from all other modern people owing to the unprecedented levels of unregulated and unrestrained violence directed at them. No other people have been taught systematically to hate themselves ---psychic violence--reinforced by the powers of state and civic coercion---physical violence---for the primary purpose of controlling thier minds and exploiting their labor for nearly four hundred years. The unique combination of American terrorism--Jim Crow and lynching--as wells as American babarism--slave trade and slave labor--bears witness to the distinctive American assault on black humanity. This vicious ideology and practice of white supremacy had left its indelible mark on all spheres of American life --- from the prevailing crimes of Amerindian reservations to the discriminatory realities against Spanish-speaking Latinos to racial stereotypes against Asians. Yet the fundamental litmus test for American democracy--it's economy, government, criminal justice system, education, mass media, and culture--remains: how broad and intense are the arbitrary powers used and deployed against black people. In this sense, the problem of the twenty-first century remains the problem of the color line.

    The basic ain of a democratic regime is to curb the use of arbitrary powers--especially of government and economic institutions---against it's citizens. Based on this uncontroversial criterion, the history of American democracy in regard to black people from 1776 to 1965 was a colossal failure. this also holds for red, brown, and yellow peoples. For one generation--thirty-five years--- we have embarked on a multiracial democracy with significant breakthroughs and glaring silences.

  • happyout
    happyout

    I hate all this talk about reparations, for several reasons.

    1) It attempts to put a monetary value on the horrors of slavery and its aftermath, which is impossible to do.

    2) There is no way to realistically decide who should and should not receive them, where the money should come from, and the manner it should be distributed.

    3) It causes animosity and divides people who need to work together to create a better world.

    That doesn't mean I don't understand some of the reasons some people feel blacks should receive them. I hear a lot of talk about "slavery was hundreds of years ago, people should get over it, it's not a factor anymore". That is absolutely blind thinking. For the hundreds of years that blacks were enslaved, they were also being mentally conditioned to believe they were inferior, to fear whites, and they were taught to mistrust and demean one another. They were often forced to fight amongst themselves for meager food and shelter, they were rewarded to turning one another in for "crimes" (like trying to learn to read and write, trying to escape, etc) and those of them who were lighter in skin color were treated better than those who were darker. The fact that this skin tone was usually because a black woman had been raped by a white man did not matter, those who were lighter had an "easier" life. This went on for HUNDREDS OF YEARS. So, then Lincoln comes in and frees the slaves. Bravo. Blacks are promised 40 acres and a mule, which they do not receive. However, it didn't stop there. The broken promises continued. America promised equality, yet up until the late 60's there were laws forbidding blacks to attend certain public places, drink from water fountains, black boys were LYNCHED for LOOKING at white women, blacks could not hold certain jobs, etc. Black families were often denied aid from the government if there was a man in the home, therefore, in order to help their families, many men left. Now, imagine what that does to a group of people mentally. You are being shown again and again that your life is less valuable because you are black. Even the "justice" system shows favoritism. Statistics show that blacks and other minorities receive harsher punishment for the same crime than whites. Let's not even get into the media depiction of blacks. Then there are a lot of people who say education is the answer. This is about the closest to the truth as it gets, however, it is still not enough. There was a recent study done at Harvard, where they sent resumes to various respected companies. The resumes were identical in qualifications, but the names were changed so that some of them sounded "ethnic". Those that sounded "ethnic" were routinely rejected, while at the same time the "generic" names were called for interviews. Let me repeat, the qualifications were IDENTICAL. Again, you are telling a group of people that no matter what they do, they are not as good as others, based on nothing more than skin color. Level of education was discarded.

    Blacks in America also have a unique loss that does not affect any other race. They have no "language". With all other minorities, hispanic, asian, native american, etc. there is a language that can be used as a unifying factor. Blacks do not have this, and it has destroyed the sense of culture that so often rescues the downtrodden. It is difficult to create a sense of pride and history where there is no unifying factor.

    Let me state at this point that I am black. I am a woman. I was raised in a "dysfunctional" home. However, my mother had a strong heart and mind, and a strong belief system that helped her get off welfare, buy a house, and raise her 5 children to become responsible members of society. We are homeowners, we all have jobs, and none of us has ever had issues with the law. Because of being raised "dubs" we were not encouraged to pursue secular education, however, we are still all at moderately well paying jobs because of our work ethic and intelligence. So, I may be a prime example that people would point to to try and prove that affirmative action is not needed. Let me say, I am more than aware how unique my family is. It is rare for a woman to have accomplished what my mother did. It is rare for a family to overcome the difficulties that we have. I understand why so many black people aren't able to do it. I understand the ingrained belief that no matter how hard they try, they can't do better. I understand that they don't think the system is set up fairly, it's not. And, as much as I hate to admit it, I understand why some just give up. Don't misquote me, I didn't say I agree, I only said I understand. I personally am unable to imagine feeling such despair that I drink my life away, or do drugs, or settle for a menial low paying job without trying to better myself. Yet, I can't ignore the fact that those hundreds of years of mental enslavement, and the ensuing years of prejudice and mistreatment have beaten many people into passive mode. They are waiting for a better life in the "next" life.

    I gave my reasons for being against reparations at the beginning of this rather long message. That doesn't mean I think nothing should be done. Unfortunately, I haven't come up with an answer that would translate to realism. Personally, I think the writer of this message is very intelligent, and trying to think in a positive manner. If only the majority of the country did that, we would be going in the right direction. Sadly, he is the minority.

    Edited by - happyout on 20 January 2003 13:54:19

  • Guest 77
    Guest 77

    Lone wolf, interesting post. I'm going to quote Happout's closing words, "If only the majority of the country did that, we would be going in the right direction. Sadly, he is in the minority".

    By the way, the ages of my six kids are 39, 38, 36, 35, 33, 18. I still say, it's difficult to believe what they did to Native American Indians and it still persists.

    Guest 77

  • teejay
    teejay

    Tom,

    A year and a half ago I said

    Personally, I do not believe in reparations.

    As heinous as slavery was, the abuses attendant with that atrocity simply cannot be undone today. Simply put, from about 1620 when the Dutch landed in the New World with the first shipload of Africans for sale until it was federally outlawed in 1865, generations of Africans were... well... f**ked. Get over it. Their services, their sacrifices, in helping to found one of the world's greatest countries ever have been appreciated, all right, but that's all the thanks they are going to get. Thank you. Now, go away. Move along.

    Okay... I'm down with that. Can't change the past, yadda yadda.

    On the flip side of the coin, the descendants of those slave owners who got rich on the backs of slaves should be allowed to keep all their wealth (and all the advantages it entails) that has been passed down to them through the generations. People have been taking advantage of the weak, the less connected, the fewer in number, since Cain slew Abel. Pre-Civil War American slavery wasn't the first case of barbarity and exploitation of a people; it surely won't be the last.

    Okay. I'm down with that, too. A bunch of men got over and today there is a bunch of people walking around who have a better life for it. Cool. It's just the good ol' American Way.

  • Francois
    Francois

    I believe that if the government of this country attempts to confiscate the income of one racial group to give to another racial group for any reason, it will spell violence on the one hand that will put the sixties to shame, and on the other hand will spell the end of this country as we know it. I believe it will generate hate and resentment on a scale that no one has stopped long enough even to imagine.

    Like Yeru, my family didn't come to this country until long after slavery was over. I don't owe one damn dime in reparations to anyone.

    If you want someone to pay reparations who is really responsible, go force the Dutch to pay it. They came up with the idea of bringing blacks in to harvest sugar cane down in the islands. And don't forget that one African tribe was selling other African tribes into slavery - and they CONTINUE to sell each other into slavery to this very day. Get them to pay it.

    francois

  • LoneWolf
    LoneWolf

    Thanks, all.

    Yerusalem --- I appreciate how you feel as it demonstrates the truth of my words concerning its being more devisive than healing. Please keep in mind though that I didn't post this for the purpose of causing dissention here on the board, but I'm trying to open a heart to heart conversation on the whole subject. It is a painful one, to be sure, but I feel that very few on either side truely understand the forces that came into play during this era, and that there will be no true healing until they do.

    Metatron --- Special consideration, yes, but one must be careful in two manners: First, those who try to help others are usually astonished about how quickly their attempts at generosity transforms their beneficaries into enemies. Giving in a manner that won't do this is truely an art.

    Secondly, even as Megadude points out, one must be careful that it doesn't reinforce the mindset that many have that keeps them in poverty. To do this successfully takes a great deal of wisdom and insight.

    Megadude --- How true that is.

    bigboi --- That is a beautiful quote and goes along with my impressions.

    happyout --- While such a thought may not be very appetizing for you, this ugly old man felt like jumping up and down in happiness and then giving you a huge hug for your words. You've answered in exactly the manner that I was hoping that someone would do.

    You see, while the words I wrote made sense to me, I had yet to get any input on the insights that I tried to put down. The reparation part was only a small part of it, and you went on to get into the real meat ond potatoes of the reasons behind the problem. A person can think he has all the insight in the world, but it means nothing until it is verified by those who have truly lived the life. What you've written has helped me far beyond the Section 6 that I wrote above. At the risk of boring everyone, I'm going to post another of the sections below in order to show you what I mean.

    Again, thank you. You have given me a great deal of encouragement. My fondest hope is that someone somewhere will be able to find some comfort and encouragement in it so as to overcome this problem. The only way that could occur is for it to be accurate and true to life.

    Teejay, my friend --- Thank you too. Please however, do not allow even a hint of defensiveness to enter your heart. I have no desire to do that at all.

    As you say, these things are all in the past. However, the effects remain, and they will never be solved until we understand them. It is not easy to put such gut experiences into words, and it is your insight that can help me in this regard.

    Even as you say, "Get over it." However it really isn't that simple. That trail needs to be blazed so that others can follow it. They need to be able to see that there is light at the end of the tunnel, as many don't, as yet.

    Okay here is Section 4.

    Racial Prejudice

    William --- Here is the fourth installment, the first of the insets. Its dealing solely with one type of prejudice, your specialty.

    Slavery and Its Effects

    For all readers: Please remember that in dealing with a subject like this that it is necessary to speak in generalities. There are, of course, exceptions to all rules. Therefore, the forces that I speak of could perhaps be viewed as a type of "psychological pollution" that the blacks have been forced to live under, and that it, like air pollution, will be merely an irritant to some, but deadly to others.

    That said, lets get down to business.

    A REACTION COMMON TO ALL HUMANS

    First, we are all humans. That means that regardless of whom we are, we tend to react similarly when confronted with the same circumstances. We are afraid of falling. We get mad when we are insulted, etc. etc.

    We know what happens when children are told from childhood that they are dumb or worthless. They may hate the words and resent those saying them, yet subconsciously it has its effect, especially when it comes from an authority figure. The result is that it destroys their confidence, they are afraid to try, and it effects everything they do. In this way, the original accusations themselves are self-fulfilling.

    We have seen the same thing in women down over the generations. They were told that such things as mathematics and science were things in which only men could excel and that they would be unable to grasp such concepts. This too came from authority figures, so most accepted it and didnt even try. The result was the same. Few women showed any skill in those fields and the resulting statistics seemed to re-enforce the original contention.

    The same conditions that affect individuals or even an entire sex will hold true to an entire race, regardless of which race it is. Should a race be enslaved, treated like animals, told for hundreds of years and many generations that they are less than human, forbidden to gain the skills necessary to compete, and reminded every time they turn around that their accomplishments cannot hope to measure up to others, it would be rather nave to assume that simply giving them their freedom will cure the problem. They are going to look at this long history and, at least subconsciously, believe it. Why? Because, like everyone else, they are human.

    THE JEWS EXPERIENCE

    Sure, someone out there will object to this, claiming that the measure of a race can be determined by how well they handle adversity, and then cite the example of the Jews. In doing so, they are comparing apples to oranges, not because they are two different races, but because of the surrounding circumstances. Let me explain.

    Yes, the Jews have been treated terribly down over the centuries, but their situation was entirely different in these major ways: They were all truly of one race, complete with the same religion, the same traditions, and the same history. (Im aware of the different branches of Judaism and in the larger scheme of things, that doesnt make much difference.) Their excellent skills in commerce were so important to them that it was their salvation in the lands where they were almost universally unwelcome. Commerce became, in essence, their country, a country without land but wherein they could dwell and feel at home. Traditionally, they were experts in achievement, were expected to achieve, and anyone who didnt was a disgrace. Knowledge and education were paramount.

    To recap, they had all of these sources of strength in common:

    a. The same religion and history.

    b. The same customs and traditions.

    c. The knowledge that they can compete and succeed, and their peers expectations of their doing so.

    d. The opportunity to gain the education necessary to do it.

    e. Strong family relationships.

    THE BLACKS EXPERIENCE --- VASTLY DIFFERENT --- WITH DIFFERENT RESULTS

    The blacks had none of this. They came from many different tribes, all with their own languages, customs, traditions and religions. They were brought over against their will, alone. True, there were other slaves on board, but few knew each other or were allowed to do anything to help or comfort one another.

    They were further fragmented upon arriving, as they were sold to different masters. Then there was the matter of time, for the slaves already there would have long forgotten the old ways of doing things, if they even had the opportunity to know them in the first place. Worse, they had long since lost hope and wanted no part of anyone who might stir up trouble and make things even more oppressive.

    Then they were systematically denied everything they once knew relating to their original languages and customs. Anything from which they could gain any confidence or ability, especially education, was forbidden, and in some instances, even music. (The history of the Jamaican drums is fascinating.) These conditions were carefully maintained and for very good reason. The blacks outnumbered the owners and the owners were all too well aware of what could happen if the slaves were not kept helpless and cowed. They knew what happened in Haiti.

    Perhaps even more devastating was that the normal relationship between men and women was destroyed. While upon the slave ships the women were segregated from the men and the ships crew had free access to them. Later, they too were sold to the highest bidders and scattered in all directions. Should families be allowed to form, they never knew when they might be torn one from another due to being sold to another owner. At times the women were used as breeders and/or mere playthings for whatever males that desired them, of any color. (Anyone ever read "Mandingo"?)

    In summary then, we have three monumental factors that we must consider in order to gain any understanding of slavery and/or hope to find any solutions to cure the evils that are left from it. They are: (a.) A gigantic and all-pervasive inferior complex that is imposed upon the victims of it, (b.) The careful systematic eradication of any source of strength from which the victims might gain benefit, and (c.) the damage done to the man/woman relationship.

    The very institution of slavery could not exist without those three conditions. Yet they are also factors that many if not most people forget to take into consideration, and I am including both blacks and whites here.

    A COMPLICATED SITUATION

    Next, most people think of this situation in simplistic terms, i.e., the white race against the black race. The reality was much more complex.

    In the north were whites like Levi Coffin, who hated slavery and wanted it ended regardless of cost, and others who knew it was wrong, but were not willing to sacrifice to achieve it. Others didnt care, as it wasnt their ox that was being gored.

    In the south were those who knew it was wrong but were afraid to speak up or were unwilling to relinquish the economic benefits of it, knowing that it would be the end of their comfortable way of life. Others liked their sense of power, their ability to act like gods over other people and to bend them to their every whim. There were also those who honestly believed due to the science and statistics of the day that blacks were indeed inferior and that they could not survive without the white mans benevolence.

    And then we have the blacks themselves. Some, like Harriet Tubman, would gladly do anything to gain freedom, and to help others get it too. But a far greater percentage had long since given up hope and resented anyone stirring up more trouble. Others, like a pet bird let out of its cage for the first time, were frightened of freedom and wanted the security of those bars to keep the world at bay. Why? Because they knew that they were woefully unprepared to compete in a dog-eat-dog world. (We see this same phenomenon today in Russia. Though hating Big Brothers regimentation with a passion, yet many miss the relative security that they received from the cradle to the grave.)

    On all sides were the opportunists who didnt give a damn about right and wrong, but eagerly sought weakness of any kind, on any side, in order to exploit it for their own profit. Indeed, slavery itself is easily demonstrated to be a product of opportunism rather than the hatred of one race against another. Consider these points:

    a. Slavery has existed in all eras of world history ranging from Biblical times up to and including the present time.

    b. Nearly all cultures have been guilty of it in one form or another. It has been found from the arctic to the tropics. (Ever read the story of the Great Slave, the one for whom that huge lake in Canadas northern territory of Mackenzie is named?) It has been found in races of all colors and regions, including the "Long Ears" enslaving the "Short Ears" on Easter Island, to mention only one of thousands of instances.

    c. It has also existed within races, such as the African blacks capturing and selling other blacks to the slave traders; within religions, such as the Israelites holding other Israelites as slaves (Exodus 21:1-11); and even within families. (Look at the instances in Southeast Asia where parents will sell their daughters into sexual slavery.)

    There are two points here. The first is that all of these ways of thinking and acting are not a function of race. They are common to people --- all peoples. Regardless of race or anything else, we will find these kinds of personalities everywhere.

    The second is that all of these forces were present then, so regardless of what theory we wish to present as to the "real" reason that the Civil War was fought, we are going to find evidence for it.

    HATE? I DONT THINK SO.

    There is one more thing that should be added to this pattern. It is as I mentioned in a previous section, that hate is little more than a function of fear. It is human nature to hate that which we fear. I see very little hate, in the true sense of the word, in most of the things that are happening in our society today, although I do see a great deal of fear and the POTENTIAL for hate. I also see a lot of earnest people doing all they can to express things as they appear from where they stand. They are legitimate opinions and should be addressed as such.

    In any event, to try to eliminate hate without eliminating the fear that creates it makes about as much sense as trying to dry the bottom of the sink while the water is still running.

    The one major exception to this would be if one were to use "hate" in the sense of having a deep contempt for and a habit of undervaluing other human beings. Used in that manner, then the opportunists are definitely guilty. Their hatred, however, is directed toward anyone who is weaker than they are, regardless of color or any other distinction. AND, their conduct would tend to color other peoples attitudes too.

    SOME APPLICATIONS

    That said, lets see if we can overlay this pattern on some of the things that are happening in our society today.

    First of all, many of those who promote the socialistic dogma being applied now in the United States are the equivalent of the carpetbaggers of the last century. They are opportunists who gleefully take advantage of other peoples misery in order to make profit and/or exploit them in a manner that will help them gain more power. That their programs never have and never will work is no accident, for they are designed to be precisely that way. To divide and conquer, to encourage rot from within, to weaken society using any means available in order to reduce it to chaos so that no one can prevent them from taking over, is the modus operandi theyve used since the beginning of their existence.

    Of course, no society would tolerate such a thing if it were done openly. Therefore, they must disguise such things under fine sounding phrases and policies. This way they rope in the gullible and inexperienced, who then take up the cause and become their "cannon fodder". These are then sacrificed to the outrage of a maligned public while sympathizing with them for the "persecution" they are receiving for standing up for what is "right".

    Even their "solutions" are designed to fail. A very small illustration would be something that happened a few years ago and that many probably remember. We were all being encouraged to conserve water and told to put bricks in the toilet tanks so that it would take less water to fill them. Also, replacement valves were made with the standpipes shorter than the originals for the same reason. However, most toilets were carefully designed to use a certain amount of water, so the end result was that many dont flush adequately with the lesser amount of water. Therefore, two or more flushes are necessary where one used to be enough. That takes MORE water than was used to begin with.

    Sure, thats a very small item and I do not mean to imply that our toilets dont work properly due to some "Commie plot." But I do mean to say that this kind of sloppy mentality is encouraged and when it is utilized all over the whole of society in a thousand different ways, it can have a profound effect.

    These people will deliberately keep blacks ignorant and in need in order to enhance their own standing and power.

    But now lets apply this same pattern to the political right.

    When a people (regardless of race or any other distinction) have been so systematically stripped of all dignity, self-respect and self-confidence, and all resources to gain such, then to merely give them their freedom and their women and assume that is going to cure the situation is nave, to say the least. To do so, at least in some instances, puts them in a worse position than they were before, if for no other reason that the former slave owners no longer have a financial interest in their wellbeing. If they starve to death, so what?

    In this case, the southern economy was devastated. Everyone was starving and there was no money anywhere. There were no food stamps in those days and no other forms of safety nets to catch people facing disaster. It was every man for himself. Meanwhile, they were being inundated with swarms of vultures in human form.

    Plus, the whites now were even more afraid. Economically devastated, their culture shot to hell, and they themselves being vulnerable to the ravages of the opportunists: they had sound reason to be paranoid. Would the blacks now use the opportunity to get revenge? Many undoubtedly blamed the blacks for the war anyway, which is not rational, of course, but is altogether quite a common human reaction.

    Consequently, in yet again a perfectly common human reaction, the whites tried to control that which they feared. Ergo we have the Jim-Crow laws and the KKK. Sure enough, they were largely successful in maintaining the conditions that had made slavery possible. They managed to keep the illusion alive that the blacks were inferior and kept them demoralized and fragmented enough that they could not gain enough power to be any threat.

    Thanks to these influences, then, even though they were no longer owned by someone and were legally free, the worst parts of slavery still existed and have existed right up to the civil rights movement. In some ways, its still here. Heres how:

    a. Perhaps the most insidious and all-pervasive aspect of it was the damage done to the man/woman relationship. When women learn not to have faith in their men, the men, already feeling guilty, withdraw emotionally if not literally. This becomes a vicious circle, getting worse with each spin. Soon the guilt disappears and they merely prey on one another. When children are born into such a situation, they soon learn the same ways and thus it gets to be part of their inheritance and is passed down from generation to generation.

    It is thanks to that factor that we now have so many unwed mothers and fatherless kids in the black community. And we can witness this same mechanism doing the same thing RIGHT NOW in the white communities thanks to the excesses of the womens lib movement, the results of which are only beginning to become apparent.

    b. But following hard on the heels of that would be the institutionalized inferiority complex mentioned above. One manifestation of that could be the lower SAT scores in the schools for the blacks. "I cant, so why try?" feeling, which is rationalized by the "they wont let me succeed anyway, plus thats white mans knowledge and I dont need that" philosophy. This negatively affects their entire lives, chopping them down before they even begin, and it too is passed on to their children as another part of their inheritance.

    These things devalue a people in their own eyes.

    Its no accident that drugs take a higher toll or AIDS is wider spread in the black community, and that more often than not it has been the result of blacks exploiting other blacks. Those perpetrators have no respect for their own people, and even the victims themselves care less about their own wellbeing due to the factors mentioned above.

    Look at the harsh way that some black rulers abuse their subjects, like Papa Doc did in Haiti or Idi Amin in Uganda. They appear to have proven to themselves that they were indeed equal to anyone, yet they have nothing but contempt for the stock they came from.

    Why did such an incredible author as Alex Haley die without the recognition from his own people that he deserved?

    But keep in mind that this is not a black phenomenon. The Australians rarely speak of their history and seem to have little pride in it. Why? Because the continent was originally one huge penal colony, and many are their direct descendants. It is eye opening to read the Introduction to Robert Hughes book The Fatal Shore.

    Even those blacks who succeed are left with a shaky, insecure feeling, knowing how far theyve come and how fragile it all is. With the drumbeat of statistics constantly throbbing in their ears showing the differences in achievement ("The Bell Jar", wasnt it?) or the higher crime rates, or the squalid conditions in the inner cities, its a kick in the belly, for what answers do they have to that? They know those are facts, but few know how to explain it, not because they are dumb, but because a leaf in a windstorm finds it hard to get the big picture and/or find the right words.

    TO SUM UP:

    Can they do it? Can they compete? You bet, but only if they can gain the self-confidence to try.

    A few years ago, a national sports figure said something to the effect that blacks were so successful in sports because they were better designed genetically for it. Theres a much better reason.

    Water, when allowed to do what it wants, will flow gently to the lowest spot and then stand there. But when its put under pressure, it will squirt out of any hole possible in order to get away from it. That earlier generation of athletes like Jackie Robinson, Hank Aaron, and Kareem Abdul Jabbar convinced the younger generation that it is possible to escape and it galvanized them. Like that water, they come out of that escape hole with incredible energy, and the additional energy is what makes them excel. One of the most incredible examples of these is the young man by the name of Muggsy Bogues, a midget of a man succeeding in a game and world of giants, in spite of all the odds.

    William, no progress in race relations is ever going to be gained without recognizing, understanding and utilizing these factors.

    I also hope that this will shine a little more light on the reason that the Blacks and Jews have reacted so differently to their respective adversities.

    In the next section, Id like to take this up again, but narrow it down even more. Ive mentioned the critical relationship between men and women, and how that relationship is crucial to ones innate strength. Im dedicating all of the next part to that one thing alone. In this way, it will be the "inset within an inset."

    Till then,

    Tom

    .

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