Court seizes over one million Jehovah's Witnesses brochures brought into Russia

by StarTrekAngel 52 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  OrphanCrow

  Saint: You REALLY don't want the state to decide which literature is appropriate for you or not.

  The state based their decision on the results of the detailed and comprehensive report submitted by these experts:

  [V].[P].[Belyanin], the doctor of philological sciences, the professor of the department of psycholinguistics HAZE, the professor of the center of international formation MGU [im]. [M].[V].[Lomonosova], the corresponding member of the academy of humanitarian studies, the academician of Moscow psychotherapeutic academy, the member of the international association of applied psycholinguistics, the member of the board of juridical psychologists;
  [M].[M].[Gromyko], the doctor of historical sciences, professor, the main scientific worker of the institute of ethnology and anthropology RAN [Russian Academy of Science]
  [D].[A].[Leontev], the doctor of psychological sciences, the docent of the department of psychology of MGU [im]. [M].[V].[Lomonosova], the substitute the chairman of the council of the Moscow department of Russian psychological society;
  [S].[A].[Nebolsin], the candidate of philological sciences, that manages by the sector of artistic interactions of the division of theory and methodology of history of literature and [iskusstvoznaniya], the chairman of scientific council for complex problem “Russia, the West and the east” of the institute of world literature RAN [Russian Academy of Science], the member of the administration of the union of the writers of Russia.

  Courts call upon expert testimony to make decisions. I am fine with that. I have read the report. I agree with it.

  And....you REALLY shoudn't tell me what I REALLY should or should not think. I do know what freedom of thought is.
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  Saintbertholdt

  And....you REALLY shoudn't tell me what I REALLY should or should not think.

  Yes I can. What you decide to do with the information is YOUR business.

  The state based their decision on the results of the detailed and comprehensive report submitted by these experts:

  In 1600 Giordano Bruno was brought made grand cosmological claims. Government experts were consulted at his trial and he was eventually burned at the stake. The west has been through this before.

  In a world where the Russian idea of government takes hold, human development will once again be delayed.
  
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  OrphanCrow

  Saint: Scientology is much worse.
  If governments start banning organizations that have an unpopular view, you end up with only the majority opinion that will be tolerated.

  To borrow a phrase from Justice McClelland, "this is not a competition" to see who is the best of the worst.

  It is not as simple as "banning an organization" in Russia. What has occured in Russia is that the Watchtower Society/JWs is not recognized as a religion. They have not been granted religious status. What is banned is their literature and certain activities. Their belief is not banned but they are restricted in what they are allowed to claim for tax purposes and what kind of propaganda they are allowed to bring into the country.

  This is not surprising. Other countries are investigating the WTS for charitable status. Russia has said 'no". They are ahead of the game on that one.

  Australia is going through a process of examining the harmful policies, that are promoted in the WT literature, and are questioning the WTS on how they may change their policies and literature to reflect a society that respects freedom of speech for its members.

  Russia has already said "no" to the literature that promotes and fosters such a horrific problem that is being exposed right now in Australia.

  If governments start taking a more responsible role in how religions operate in their countries, I think that problems like hiding child sex criminals won't be tolerated.
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  Driving Force

  We all know, and nobody will deny that in years past under the communist system in the eastern block countries, the population were indoctrinated to the communist belief. Living in West Germany I have talked to many people from these lands, and generally God and such subjects are a none issue for many.

  Why is that?

  It is due to the indoctrination the population received. This indoctrination still goes on, even so in the western world, in the Islamic world, it does not matter where you are, the indoctrination is there in every society, this influencing of people. The difference in the so called democracies is to some extent you have freedom of choice, if you can see through the prethora of crap that is available.

  Now this is the point I want to make, as every governmental form dictates the framework of that society, it is careful not to allow anything which can subvert the fundamentals of that society. So undoubtably the lawmakers and those involved have carefully scrutinized the literature from Jehovahs Witnesses, and come to the conclusion, that this literature is written in such a way as to influence people to make decisions that is against that society. Everybody who has come to know TTATT realizes how powerfully mind adjusting this literature really is.

  I am please that the Governmental organization has concluded that this literature is counter-productive to maintaining a functioning society, because those who are influenced by this will make themselves enemies of that society.

  Unfortunately, there is to my knowledge, no country, that through education, informs its populous how to cope with this mind altering material.
  
• 

  OrphanCrow

  In 1600 Giordano Bruno was brought made grand cosmological claims. Government experts were consulted at his trial and he was eventually burned at the stake. The west has been through this before.

  Yeah...over 400 years ago.

  I think that knowledge has evolved a fair bit since then.

  I will take my chances with the Russian experts.

  If by the "west" you mean a "western" expert like Applewhite, then I can see you may have a point.
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  Mephis

  Yes. This is Russia.
  And Russians have very long memories. This is evident in Putin's honoring of past political heroes such as PyotrStolypin and the raising to sainthood of the last Tsar and his family. What runs deep, very deep, in the Russian memory is the role of religious sects on the ruling power of Russia - Rasputin's ghost will always hover in that dark and bloody history and will never disappear.
  Russia has a long history with cults and their influence on political events is an integral part of their past. In fact, there was an Apocalyptic cult that committed mass suicide just outside the edge of Moscow on the eve of the Tsar's abdication.
  I know that this is "old" history to some, but in a Russian's mind, it isn't.
  Fringe extremist religions will never get far in Russia when someone like Putin is in power. He is deeply rooted in the past.

  I really don't think Rasputin had much to do with the authoritarian nature of most Russian governments in the C20th. He was symbolic of just how much power could accrue to the 'church' (and he was a monk, even if hated) within the Tsarist regime though. If you want the parallel I see, it's in the power of the Orthodox Church once more being harnessed by the state there. It's canny little to do with 'cults' and an awful lot to do with authoritarian regimes finding ways to stigmatise 'the other' within society. I don't give a stuff about the JWs magazines or books, but I'm not going to applaud a state heading down the road Putin's Russia is going. The irony of them doing the sucking up to Mugabe's Zimbabwe, whilst ignoring the issues others around them have there, isn't lost on me though.
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  OrphanCrow

  Mephis: I really don't think Rasputin had much to do with the authoritarian nature of most Russian governments in the C20th. If you want the parallel, it's in the power of the Orthodox Church once more being harnessed by the state there. It's canny little to do with 'cults' and an awful lot to do with authoritarian regimes finding ways to stigmatise 'the other' within society.

  Politics in early 20thC in Russia were most certainly influenced by Rasputin.

  And yes, the power of the Orthodox Church is being once more harnessed - like it was in the years that Rasputin became a major influence on the Russian Court and was a major player in the politics that led to the Revolution of 1917 and the eventual demise of the last monarchy of Russia.- an event that some historians say was the most important political event of the 20th C.
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  Mephis

  There's a fun legend around Rasputin, but his actual role even within the one government he did have any influence on was fairly minimal until very literally just before he was assassinated. If he had had the power attributed to him, the Romanovs would have survived at least a few years longer than they did because Russia wouldn't have entered WW1. But, regardless, JWs are different so legitimate targets in Putin's Russia for mob violence, random bans and all the perverse court fun which goes on there once more. Not really something to celebrate for me.
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  never a jw

  Village idiot

  I am quite ambivalent about freedom of religion being applied to JW's.

  1. First is not a charity
  2. Second, allows children to die in hospitals
  3. Destroy families
  4. Destroys lives
  5. Deceives left and right
  6. Uses abusive language to refer to the rest of the world
  7. Discourages higher education, therefore robs young children of their lives.

  As you can see it's hard to make even a weak case to defend it as a religion
  
• 

  OnTheWayOut

  No matter how much I despise the Watchtower I am a firm believer in religious and non-religious rights. Whether it be Mormonism, Scientology or whatever they have a right to print and distribute their crap.

  Here in the United States, people cherish freedom of speech, but they recognize that the government will limit that because of speech that involves incitement (urging someone to behave unlawfully) , false statements of fact, obscenity, child pornography, or threats.

  While such issues are never going to be easy to define and agree upon, government has always stepped in to place limits on speech, even in the land of free speech. We know, more than the Russian government, that JW literature is loaded with hate of other beliefs and encourages violations of human rights via shunning. So, while people will argue about whether that should be their right to distribute their crap, please try to understand that there is a governmental responsibility to regulate free speech.