prayer in school

by stephenw20 52 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • crossroads

    Brother, brother, brother,
    We don't need to escalate
    We got to find away to bring some lovin' here today
    So be happy 6 called you a young man[ I know I know
    you'll always be younger than me] As for miracles if
    the rest choose to think that the LORD was not going to
    use any of the 24 on that plane for some good well maybe
    they do not believe that some or all where called from the
    beggining[Paul]. I know this site has drifted from the original
    post and yes I contributed to the drift. But I ask once again
    to go back and read that Fathers plee maybe you can say
    a 5 second pray before rereading ask the LORD to help
    you feeeeeeeeel what that Father was trying to say.
    MERCY-MERCY ME. May we all show mercy to any and all
    who endure these gut wrenching times. Maybe just maybe
    theirs is the voice crying out in the wilderness.

  • stephenw20

    you didn't answer whether or not the evildoers prayer did him any good?

    "This should include the choice not to pray, or the choice to pray to a non-Christian god, without pressure or coercion. Why should students be forced to worship someone else's idea of a higher power?"

    I never suggested someone had to worship another persons god......that is not what this is about.......

    "EX: I am aware of no genuine or proven miracles to explain."

    I see one everyday, when I drive over the mountain between myself and the sun...... I am here........ and I dont have to be.....
    In my perception , miracles exist...I am sorry for you EX they dont.....I see too much evidence of them on a routine basis to deny them.... perhaps you may read this story


    your point is well taken if you give the credit to God for sparing , you must saddle him with the seeming unfairness of the plane crashes........I dont see it that way....and I dont see it as god needing angels when a plane goes down........

    I SEE IT ALL AS AN EDUCATION> for us who deal with the loss and for those who go...... you can say this(physcial) is all there is.......... but on what basis can you make that statement, when it has been stated hundreds of times people with near death experiences, getting close to another power..and returning......

    we are spirit as well .....which many discount HEAVILY... I prefer not to.......

    Take care EX..


  • crossroads

    Larc-must respnd to your FACTS. Please look at them with me
    Normandy slaugther 6-6-44 fact-IKE knew they would be
    Then when the real army landed;the boys that knew how to
    fight many many more died fighting yard by yard to get to
    Berlin before Stallin. Surrender was when 5-7-45.
    How many needlees deaths was there. I mean if IKE waited to
    9-7-45 four whole months would he saved american lives.
    As of right now just the FACTS the only country ever to be
    'BOMBED' was not white and was not christain but they were
    'bombed' by the white christian elite. Now I might be just a
    dumb polock but thats the FACTS. You nor anybody else will
    ever no never convince me that we would have'bombed' a
    white christian nation.
    Ritche Havens is still on stage but he is no longer singing
    hes screamin' FREEDOM FREEDOM FREEDOM just a fact
    it was a made up song he had nothing else left. What a
    moment in the woodstock generation. Just as the 'bombing'
    was for the 'greatest generation'. They were both the beginning
    of the end for both.

  • larc


    What does quantum physics have to do with the landing of an airplane?


    You said that some may not believe that some of the 24 were not called from the beginning. Do you believe that some of them were called from the beginning?

  • stephenw20


    ordinarily nothing, ordinarily everything

    The whole objection/obsession, in the past, of science's demand of "Verifible Proof" of ESP, etc. has had it's legs taken out from under itself. By who? PHYSICS ! The highest/purest ground of science is now in the opinion that you cannot separate the Observer and the Observed ! There is NO Objective Experiment.

    It has also proved(yes proved) that a two particle miles from one another can affect each other instantly. (the details of this are facinating). Things like the single/double slit light experiments show that depending on what we are looking for, the experiment will demonstate that perspective(ie probability).

    How can two things(particles/waves) communicate/know that the other has changed and thus they must change instantly. (this involves experiments with what's called "Matched Pairs" Photons/Particles with the same spin and orientation.

    Imagine watching a Cloud Chamber(watching particles) and you see 3 particles come literally from nowhere(positive/Negative and Neutral) and then collapse back into each other(annilation) and disappear?

    Look at a florescent light, Believe it or not it is blinking on and off. But because our only can detect 30(I think about there) oscilations per second, It appears to be on All the time. What if Matter was blinking on and off faster than we could perceive? We would never know it. (note: Our instruments are blinking also)...

    in this case here is my suggestion.......

    a plane flys in an atmosphere subject to change and reaction,itself being part of the cause for reaction....while there are calculable ways to land and fly a plane, there is always an X this case an x factor with a problem..... so what is true of an aircraft at say 100mph is not the same @ 200....

    its more complicated than just more air passing by a wing......
    the reaction phase /ratio is thrown off into a tizzy........


  • stephenw20


    If that upsets you I do apologize
    I dont find that insulting, rather see it as a gift to us.....


  • crossroads

    Larc it is not for me or you I might add to say if one or more
    members of that crew was choosen from the beginning
    only the FATHER. But if your saying the annionted and the
    144,000 are one in the same. Please show me the FACTS
    I would really like to see them.
    Hey Steve I just told all we were polish and now your throwing
    out all this physics stuff .

    How many years can some people exist before they
    are aloud to be free?
    How many times can a man turn his head and pretend
    that he just doesn't see?
    Larc stop turning your head. The answer is not blowin'
    in the wind. The answer lies in the one way one truth and
    one life Jesus The Christ Our Lord and Savior.
    Larc may the rest of your day be blessed . Peace and
    Love from a brother who has enjoyed the debate.

  • expatbrit


    Thanks for the reference to an interesting story.

    However, I don't see anything there to indicate miraculous circumstances.

    The victim feels the presence of angels and her father. Irrational thoughts and feelings are to be expected from someone suffering from shock and blood loss after several hours of high altitude exercise.

    The rescuer "feels" like biking on unusual trails. Maybe it took him a while to decide before he left? Now he decides there was something supernatural about his decision simply because he happened to find an injured person. Where's the evidence? Dozens of people die in the woods every year. Why aren't there angelically directed bikers finding them all? Why are these "miracles" such a rare occurence? Could it simply be random factors interacting to result in a serendipitous event?

    Medical science has also formulated very plausible and non-supernatural explanations for so-called "out of body experiences". Oxygen starvation to the brain etc...

    All the above questions should probably be viewed as rhetorical, since we wont agree on this subject. I do not deride or belittle your viewpoint, it simply doesn't work for me.

    God may or may not exist. He may or may not take an interest in this tiny planet and it's inhabitants. Given the spiritual charlatanry I've experienced over the last three decades, I require more conclusive, objective and measurable evidence of his footprints in our sand.


  • larc


    The Heisenberg Principle, known as the uncertainty principle states that it is not possible to measure the position and momentum of a very small particle, like an electron, at the same time. However, if you measure the momentum of something large like a Buick Park Avenue, with a light beam there is no effect, therefore you cna measure the postion and the momentum of the Buick at the same time. Therefore, at levels above the atomic and subatomic level one can and does separate the OBSERVER AND THE OBSERVED. Graduate students in psychology used to love to quote the Heisneberg Priniciple to make the claim that their was no objective experiment, that the observer or the measurement device affects the results. Of course, this is simply not true.

    You said that particles miles apart can affect each other instantaneously. Please provide a reference from a standard physics text or a physics journal that docuements this. Please provide the same information on the cloud chamber experiment and the single/double slit experiment you mentioned.

    Your reference to flourescent light has no bearing on the discussion. Human visual perception have nothing to do with the measures at the atomic level. What you described here also applies to TV and movie viewing, but again has nothing to do with the subjuct at hand.

    Quantum physics has to do with the behavior of photons and electrons. They can behave either as a particle o a wave. That does not mean that they "know" anything as you stated.

    If a plane is out of kilter because of damage, it still moves through the air according to aerodynamic priniples, not due to the principles of photons and electrons.


    Tell me what you think of my World War II data, and answer the question I asked you about the air crew on the plane, then I will tell you my opinion of the 144,000.

  • larc


    When responding to Steven, I missed your one post. I am curious. Why do you have to use words like "dumb polock" in your discussion. Does this butress your arguement, or prove that you are a good Christian?

    When you assert that we would not use the bomb against Germany you are just guessing, since it can't be proved. The Germans were also working on the A bomb, and since all of their enemies were Christian, I have to assume that they would have used it on them.

    As I said before, we used all the bombs at our disposal as fast as they could be manufactured and delivered to crush the Germans into submission so I don't see any reason why we wouldn't have used the A bomb as well.

    My question to you about the air crew was not if they were set aside by God, but whether you thought that they were. What is your opinion? You are the one that brought it up as a possibility.

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