Is Satan really a liar, and the father of the lie? (page 2)

startingover

Google "The Other People" by Oberon Zell. Good story about this subject.

GodZoo

"Here the man has become like one of US"

That must mean that God, Jesus, the angels, and whoever the 'US' is all had 'knowledge of good and bad'.

How come they too are not condemned to death for having such knowledge?

Giordano

For those interested in a deeper evaluation I've sited the complete information.

Satan is a character that appears in the belief systems of many religions, including Christianity and Islam. In Judaism "satan" is not a sentient being but a metaphor for the evil inclination – the yetzer hara – that exists in every person and tempts us to do wrong.

Satan As A Metaphor for the Yetzer HaRa

The Hebrew word "satan" literally means "adversary" and in Jewish thought one of the things we struggle against every day is the "evil inclination," also known as the yetzer hara.

http://judaism.about.com/od/judaismbasics/a/jewishbeliefsatan.htm

Now for what the New Testament never says. Satan/the devil does not rule hell, does not punish people there and does not suffer there himself; all these beliefs come from the later Christian tradition. Only much later did the Christian devil become the eternal and powerful enemy of God, like the evil god of Zoroastrianism.

So the New Testament does not have a coherent account of the devil. All sorts of different accounts are there, mixed up. The New Testament authors got their ideas from the paganism and fringe Judaism of their day. Christians should not feel obliged to believe the devil exists at all.

http://clatworthy.org/wordpress/2014/01/why-christians-shouldnt-believe-in-the-devil/

Half banana

As you say Giordano,Christianity as represented by the NT, is a fusion of Hebrew and just about every pagan belief and Greek philosophy going at the time. They were never coherent then... you just needed your partizan faith!

And that's why it is possible to discuss Bible doctrines INTERMINABLY, as in two thousand years, and still arrive at zero conclusions.

datto

The JWs told me that paradise is like when Adam & eve time before they sinned. Means those who will make it to paradise will actually become dumb? Oh god is creepy & Satan is awesome

Nickolas

Satan doesn't exist. Neither does Jehovah. That's the consciousness hurdle ahead. It's a tall one certainly. Seek truth with an open mind. Hard to do. You've been indoctrinated. You likely still believe much of what the Watchtower told you is The Truth. Be prepared to learn that none of it is true.

cantleave

Satan taught Jimmy Page how to play guitar - he's awesome!!!

Nickolas

And all this time I thought it was Jimi Hendrix he taught.

CalebInFloroda

Giordano is right about the original Jewish view of these Genesis texts.

As a Jew I can attest that this narrative is neither viewed as an "original sin" story nor is the snake viewed as "Satan the Devil." It is merely one of three origin stories in Genesis that explains how Jews see themselves in relation to G-d.

Like Israel, Jews "wrestle" with the G-d concept. We ask questions, we argue, we refuse to submit. This is very different from the submissive "listen and obey" attitude of JWs. Eve's actions and Adam's response are reflecting what Jews saw in themselves in relation to G-d, describing the then current view of the relationship between the covenant people and the Almighty as if it originated in Adam and Eve's experience with G-d as well. Jews were not claiming that this was the history of the Gentiles.

We view "Satan" as that within us that fails to reach the potential we all have for being just, good, and reclaiming freedom for all humans. While the Christian view is to blame another creature for our failings, Jews believe it is better to take responsibility for these as to be able to repair and redeem humanity from the problems we as the human race allow to befall upon ourselves.

Crazyguy

Good point they did not die from eating for the fruit, the sky God just forbid them from eating from the tree of life. So in all reality Satan did not lie. In the original story the sky God is Enlil and his wise giving of knowledge half brother the adversary was Enki. Enki was one of two Sumarian gods depicted by a serpent.

Is Satan really a liar, and the father of the lie?

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