by Jerry Bergman 118 Replies latest watchtower scandals
Hi, Jerry!!!
Nice to see you here.
For lack of time I haven't read most of this thread, but just wanted to say "HI !!!"
We haven't corresponded in a long time. I'm delighted how well Diane's book is doing.
Still cherish the cruise memories.
Blessings,
Ray Actually, I had assumed that there were more cases than three confirmed cases of a mule giving birth. In plants it is very common for polysomy plants to reproduce successfully (actually they are more successful than the single set version called monosomy). A chromosome is only the unit that packages the genes and an animal can have 6 large chromosomes or 12 smaller ones. It is unusual but many interesting examples exist in cytology. Trisomy 21 (an extra 21) in humans is not rare and, although they have problems, can survive. As to neoDarwinism, no new information is created here, only damage to the storage arrangement so I fail to see how that supports any form of Darwinism. Actually it supports the degeneration idea.
Jehovah's Witnesses do not teach morality. They legislate morality. If you are not moral you will be punished. So witnesses out of fear of losing friends and family are moral.
Also, you are assuming tha because the witnesses use a Bible and pray that they are a religion. Nothing could be further from the truth. The watchtower is a publishing company and the rank and file are their book salesmen. The religion part is just a sham to get the salesmen feeling good about their specialness and thus work harder. Nothing more, nothing less.
JD Degrees are part of who you are. If I started to spout about law (something I do know something about because I worked for a court for a time) and someone got on line and said "I am a law school graduate and a practicing lawyer" I would not take it that he was flaunting his degree but that he is trying to explain where he is coming from. I would than realize that I could learn from him and instead of trying to tell him what I know I would ask questions. As a Witness I was the butt of derision because of my schooling or education and have since then learned that some people value education. The reason for relating this part of my background is it tells one my background and part of the reason for my conclusions. If you said you were an Elder this would help me understand your views and perspective, and I would not take it that you were bragging. I think that this is important information, and I appreciate it. It is the same with education background, is it not? Should I hide it as if I was ashamed of it (as I did when I was a Witness)? PS I know I have a lot of people to respond to here, so be patient. I have to work for a living too! PPS Actually I rarely ever list all of my degrees and titles (AA, BA, MEd, PhD, MA, PhD, MSBS, LPCC, MPH, completing my MSOH, and almost a PhD in Corrections and almost a PhD. in Chemistry) but only that which indicates the background for my responce. Some have claimed that I should be up front with my whole background
Edited by - jerry bergman on 20 December 2002 16:52:56
mouthy
I do not know how the case with James Aldridge is going but wish I did. If anyone does, please let us know. Here is where we all could help a good human being (and this is one of many cases I know of which makes me angry at the court system).
Edited by - Jerry Bergman on 20 December 2002 16:57:30
Jerry,
Some better off as JW's??? ... Bite your tongue!!!!!
Ex JW's are free to choose beliefs that WORK for them, since the JW philosphy did not fly.
Personally, the athiests I know are not bitter, and New Agers do not "worship" or "play" with stones.
Of course the WT has some hint of truth, ... who of us would have got sucked in if it was completely ungrounded and illogical???
As for morality, my choice is to not make judgments on the free choices that other people make.
Psssst ... are you secretly a jw??? ... Just curious ... 'cuz you have the lingo for it.
To Wednesday, ... I saw "Chocolat" ... the movie. The town was not nearly as rigid as the JW's I know ... hehehe!!! Loved your observations on it!!!
ESTEE_TX
Jerry,
To answer your question, yes. Unfortunately.
Something Seven006 said really struck me. Common sense should tell people that it's wrong to kill, lie, cheat, steal, and so on. So why does it have to specified in Scripture (whether in the Bible, the Koran, or other holy writings)?
Maybe the prohibitions were put in with the most insecure and fearful members of the human race in mind. The ones so afraid of a wrong decision, so afraid of their humanity and sexuality, they need to be able to cite chapter and verse forbidding whatever in order to feel "safe."
Something no one's touched on regarding the study of other religions, especially pagan ones, and the "play[ing] with rocks" groups, is the appeal they have.
I spent very little time as a Witness, but it's been two decades since I was kicked out before I seriously began studying one pagan religion. I've got almost a dozen reasons why it appeals to me, one of which is variations on a theme, but they might show why so many feel traditional religion has failed for them, and so they've moved to belief systems like these.
The main ones, I'd say, are: that there's no holy book for people to argue over what chapter Y and verse Z in the book of X means. And there's no "we are the only way" mindset, which leads to smugness, superior feelings, jihads, Crusades, and secular wars where the "Bible-based" churches have blessed the soldiers of both sides, among other "bad fruits."
The rules are few--a restated Golden Rule actually. Do nothing to harm others or yourself, especially by seeking to control or manipulate others, or doing things for/to them without their knowledge and consent. Also, since we were given a brain with the ability to reason, the person is expected to be able to figure out how to live on a daily basis and run their own life, rather than have an instruction manual/spiritual "boss" for almost every situation. If that rule's broken, consequences are expected, and in greater measure than was the original evil. Hardly a picture of casting off all restraint.
Another one (for me anyway) is that I needn't sit passively in a building and be "spoon-fed" religion and knowledge by someone who sees him/herself as a needed intercessor, a dispenser of divinity. I can connect directly to a Higher Power anytime, not just during prayer. The world can be my church, not some particular building.
Then there's the idea of no Satan that led mankind into sin. It's felt we choose to do good or evil. The same race that produced Hitler and Stalin and Mao Tse-tung also gave us Mother Teresa, Gandhi, and da Vinci. None of that "*wink-snigger* "The Devil made me do it" crap. We choose to do good or evil. This also scraps the argument about the need for personal salvation (let alone who to follow or how it's acheived, on which all religions stressing a need for salvation differ).
It took me a long time to get that far in accepting the beliefs, because I was a "blank slate" before the JW's arrived at my door and their hold on my thinking about other religions still hinders me. Some pagan beliefs are in the "the jury's still out on this" list. But that simplicity, the empowerment, the not being treated as barely smarter than a trained canine, attracts me to it.
No religion, philosophy, movement, etc., has a monopoly on virtue or vice.
NO!
Kingpawn,
spent very little time as a Witness, but it's been two decades since I was kicked out before I seriously began studying one pagan religion. I've got almost a dozen reasons why it appeals to me,
Hey KP,
Many of the things this Pagan "religion" allows, are the same things many of us NATURALLY believe......with no need of this pagan religion. All the ones you mentioned fit in with many individuals beliefs not influenced by anyone else.I'm not saying what you have found is wrong by any means.....only that many arive at similar conclusions on their own.
Kingpawn: True the "we are the only way" mindset, which leads to smugness, superior feelings, jihad's, Crusades, and secular wars where the "Bible-based" churches have blessed the soldiers of both sides, among other "bad fruits." is a big problem but does this mean that all religious beliefs are equally good? Obviously not. Even though this is true, we still have to evaluate and research the truth and the validity of each religious belief (and all other beliefs as well). And we may find that some are valid, others invalid
