Purgatory, Limbo or the Twilight Comfort Zone

by SolidSender 67 Replies latest jw friends

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  SolidSender

  Regarding this situation where if you leave or are asked to leave the organisation then your family are not permitted to associate with you or some sort of scenario thereabouts by decree of organizational policy.

  I think this is outright evil and sick it's a fatal disease. We've got a mind control cult on our hands here. Sometimes you get too close to things you can't see.

  Speaking generally now I don't see how one person remaining within the mindcontrolcult is going to be able to help either themselves or those they love within it by continuing to remain under it's influence. While ever everyones in it no one stands a chance of freedom.

  This is of course assuming that one wants to break free. Some don't I know, they are more than happy being part of the cult and buy into it completely without reservation. Others are nonchalant - they know it's bullshit but it doesn't worry them or doesn't seem to. If anyone reading this falls into these categories skip the rest of this post.

  This cult is ruining lives and from my experience the lives of some superb people. I'm almost at a loss for words here but as long as you are participating in the WTBTS program a part of you is theirs and that part of you is very distorted, very one sided, very unbalanced, one dimensional, narrow, very brain washed/polluted/poisoned. That part of you has a worldview entirely based upon the fictions of the WTBTS. I don't claim to have any answers or to speak for anyone else but I can say that after seven years of not participating in the WTBTS program I think the healing has begun. The pendulum is starting to swing a little more around the centre. Giving myself that time space has helped pull a lot into perspective. It certainly has not been easy but I strongly recommend it to anyone who can relate to what I'm saying.

  This has not meant to be a harsh critical post but a sober one.-SolidSender
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  Pathofthorns

  It's almost to simple to comprehend. jesus removed the law and hence to those who have faith in him made us all equal before God. A group of people who all consider themselves equal in this respect, that's hard to imagine

  You are right. Its so simple that many people think it can't possibly work that way. The real reason might be that true Christianity doesn't allow for one to make money off it, or hold power or control over others. Religion evolves so people can control others and make money off them.

  why the hell did he give us the bible if he knew all this s**t was gonna happen?

  (Having a bad day SS? LOL Sometimes the subject pisses me too, but why give the self-righteous crowd one more thing to talk about?)

  I think with or without the Bible things would end up similarly. All religions outside of Christianity have their problems too. My thoughts though on the question is that perhaps the real answers lie in the search for truth, and not the certainty of the answers themselves. While most people have a spiritual side, few are really pondering the questions and searching, few bind themselves to God's laws when no one is around to control or punish them, few have their hearts fixed on the spiritual as opposed to the physical. (I only say few in relation to the whole number of people in Society)

  If the Bible was written so that it was simply rules and answers, we would all become like the Pharisees. By taking away Law and writing the Bible the way it is, we each have an opportunity to demonstrate what love and truth really mean to us individually.

  (Also and interesting conversation going on at Witnet in Controversial Topics relating to Meetings. Some good honest responses, plus some good canned ones too. )

  Path
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  SolidSender

  Path - very eloquently put.

  My thoughts though on the question is that perhaps the real answers lie in the search for truth, and not the certainty of the answers themselves.

  I've been thinking about this myself it seems jesus was the only true christian and even though the bible does provide us with a lot of info the best we can do is try and fill in the blanks within the outline or pattern of christian spirit.

  By taking away Law and writing the Bible the way it is, we each have an opportunity to demonstrate what love and truth really mean to us individually

  What can i say - this is the crux of the matter. So ridiculously simple. This is why the WTBTS ( amongst others ) is non christian.

  The real reason might be that true Christianity doesn't allow for one to make money off it, or hold power or control over others

  Shame about that isn't it?-SolidSender
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  Carmel

  Dear Solid,

  I understand your point. Two comments, Jesus is reported to have said "when two or more of you are gathered together, there also shall I be". This would suggest to me that gathering together and functioning in an organized manner is not itself the problem. In another situation He warned that nothing that enters our bodies corrupts us, only that which come out of our mouths. Again this would suggest that our utterances and/or actions can bring dishonor upon us whether as individuals or as part of an organized group.

  I think many people burned by control groups such as religious fanatacism blame the orgainization, the system, if you will, ignoring that many organizations, religious and otherwise, are not repressive and controling. It always comes back to individuals and collectives wanting to extend control over others. Organizations simply have a multiplicity of means that individuals many not have to develop control mechanisms.

  Second thought, I don't find just reading the bible is an unbiased approach. Considering how many deletions and permutations the bible has gone through, what we are left with is the collective prejudices of past religious zealots who have left us a legacy in writing that is unlikely to be either complete or accurate. I still gain inspiritation from it, but I don't feel it is the "whole story".

  cheers,

  carmel
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  SolidSender

  Carmel – thanks for the post. There are a couple of things you mentioned I’d like to discuss but for the moment time permits me addressing only one of them - that of the Bible not being the whole story. Let’s just say it isn’t - how much more of the story do you feel is necessary and what would it contribute above and beyond what we have at present? I see it like any story or film or play or whatever. Let me use film as an example. A film story begins and finishes at an arbitrary point in the character’s lives. The story exists within certain constraints of time, place and character – it is limited in its nature by necessity. However within these limited constraints a good storyteller can fully accomplish their intent in writing the piece, get across the moral or point or message of the story. It is not necessary for the author to include the entire history of the universe and the history of every life ever lived on the planet or elsewhere to accomplish this. A good story is as much about what is told as what isn’t told. I’m not saying that the bible is just a story but in my humble opinion Christianity is a very simple concept. If you feel that more needs to be added to this concept or has been left out I would be very interested to hear it.-SolidSender
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  Carmel

  SS,

  Happy to engage. First I should explain that I do not discount the bible as we know it for it has been a huge influence and major contribution to humanity. That said, I think we often think that all civilization is a product of this one tome and that misconception reinforces the notion of exclusivity prevelant throughout christianity. The simple fact is that much of human civilization as we know it is the result of an amalgamation of the contributions of Judiasm, Christianity, Islam, Zoroastrianims, Buddhism, Hinduism and others.

  A simple example is the concept of the 0. This concept of a digit which stands for the absense of numerical value, was picked up by the Islamic scientists and connected to the Arabic numbers to make possible tremendous advances in mathematics, algebra, and other forms of higher calculations.

  Islam, itself, has contributed immensely to the world of science, and was directly responsible for the reawakening of Christian Europe that had sunk into the dark ages.

  I have dwelt only on one small issue but it is an example of an abstract idea that was brought to humanity by a civilization that traces its roots to ancient Hinduism. There are many other examples. As to moral and ethical issues, my investigation evidences to me that all the religions had a moral and ethical standard of pretty much the same. You can compare the Golden Rule for example. When all these religions have common spirtitual (human) values in common, but advocate different social teachings, one wonders if one of those holy books isn't a sort of hologram. You can identify the whole in each of the parts, but the part is still not the same as the whole.

  Have I made any sense yet?

  camel
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  SolidSender

  uh, nope.
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  Frenchy

  Speaking generally now I don't see how one person remaining within the mindcontrolcult is going to be able to help either themselves or those they love within it by continuing to remain under it's influence. While ever everyones in it no one stands a chance of freedom.

  
  Knowledge is freedom. You mistake not DA’ing oneself with remaining in the cult. It’s not. When you write that letter or tell the elders that you no longer want to be a JW, you are still playing by their rules. You are deliberately limiting any influence you may have on your friends and family for the rest of your life. You are giving them license to exclude a goodly portion of your friends and family from your life. MY question is why would you want to do that?
  You evidently don’t know the JW’s very well.

  -Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it-
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  Carmel

  SS,

  Let me try again! The bible was, we assume, a collection of "revelations" given to humanity over the period of what, 800 years? I'm not a bible scholar, but I beleive it is thought that most of the OT stories were written down starting some where around 700 bc to 200 ad? In any case while this was happening the rest of the world was being visited by events of a similar nature. Krisna and Zoroaster come to mind as having profound impact on the spiritual as well as material affairs of mankind in India and Asia. In face Zoroaster's followers knew enough from their holy books to know when and how to "look for the new King". (ie the three kings who came with gifts)

  After Jesus, Muhammed in Arabia around 622 made his flight from Mecca, gathered his followers togher and provided them with the Koran. Through this event a whole region greater than the Roman Empire came under the civilizing effect of the elan of a common govenmental administration. City states, the highest form of govenment gave way to the actual concept of "nations" as we presently understand them. Wonderful new inovations came from this pax Islam. While the Christian world had fallen deep into a darkness, Islam was the "light of the world", so to speak.

  The light of Islam is no longer adequate for a world that has become aware of itself as one complex unit. The Sharia law is as complicated and cumbersome as the Talmud and as devided against itself as is Christianity divided. The lack of unity in both makes for the possiblility of wars in which Mulsim countries fight fellow Muslims, (Iran and Irag, Irag and Quate) and for Christian to kill Christian, (how many examples do we need).

  My point is that even thought the Koran provides for advancement of humanity beyond what the bible had, it is no longer adequate. Neither is the Geta, or the Book of Morman. A global society needs a revelation that goes beyond just personal salvation or salvation for only one religion. Just that simple. The Bible is in adequate, IMHO.

  To answer your question more directly, the spiritual teaching of the Bible and the Koran are more than adequate, the social teachings are insufficient.

  carmel
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  SolidSender

  You are giving them license to exclude a goodly portion of your friends and family from your life. MY question is why would you want to do that?

  WTBTS - 1
  Frenchy - 0

  Get my point?-SolidSender