Need the hardest evidence possible that humans have lived for more than 6000 years

by ILoveTTATT2 41 Replies latest jw friends

  • ILoveTTATT2

    Thank you cofty, I will read it slowly. Yet again, the Watchtower promotes extreme scientific illiteracy.

    I am impressed by how many different ways there are to date something nowadays, and that the methods agree and are trusted.

    Interestingly, if there are any errors, the errors are generally dating something too young. So perhaps the 10,000 year ago pottery is more likely 12,000 years ago, not 8,000 years ago.

  • Daniel1555

    Check and research "Chauvet Cave" and especially "Cosquer Cave."

    "Cosquer Cave" has excellent proof, that not even JWs are able to refute. The only cave entrance is 41 metres below sea surface. So the people painting must have entered, as the sea level was much lower than today. This is a proof, that they could enter only during the ice ages much more than 6000 years ago when the sea level was more than 100 metres lower than today.

  • Perry

    I recently read a fascinating an illuminating article from a respected science journal that explained how life was generated by rocks at:

    "How life emerged from deep-sea rocks" - Nature magazine

    Adam & Eve?

  • Coded Logic
    Coded Logic

    An absolute MUST watch (gets really good at the five minute mark)

  • Aerodynamic
    Read "Finger Prints of the Gods" by Graham Hancock. Solid enough for me.
  • Saintbertholdt

    Humans have 23 chromosomes,
    All other apes have 24 chromosomes.

    This would seem to show that humans are unique and therefore probably a separately created species.

    Hooray for creationism.

    However evolutionists would speculate that perhaps two chromosomes got fused together over time and over many generations.

    So where's the hard evidence?

    At the beginning and the end of each chromosome is a telomere. These are markers to indicate the endpoints of a chromosome.

    TCT <-- Telomere, Chromosome gene sequences, Telomere

    If two chromosomes fused together you would expect to find a telomere sequence in the middle of the new fused chromosome.

    TCTTCT <-- Two chromosomes fused together

    And this is what has been found on chromosome 2 of homo sapiens. This explains why humans have 23 chromosomes and not 24:

    IJdo JW, Baldini A, Ward DC, Reeders ST, Wells RA, Origin of human chromosome 2: an ancestral telomere-telomere fusion. Procedures of the National Academy of Science USA 1991 Oct 15;88(20):9051-5;


    Evolution in chickens:

    1. Chickens have vestigial tooth DNA. In an experiment the tooth gene was re-activated during chicken embryo development and the embryos started developing teeth.

    2. Also T-Rex collagen protein found in a T-Rex bone that broke and that was originally found by Jack Horner, reacted to avian antibodies taken from avian tissue indicating that it was a bird protein.

    So T-Rex probably tasted like KFC.

    The above two points show that birds have dinosaur ancestry.

    3. Dinosaurs with teeth ate meat. So either Dinosaurs were there after the flood when God commanded man and beast to commence eating meat (according to Genesis)...which means Noah carried them on the Ark and let them out on mount Ararat.

    OR if dinosaurs ate meat before the flood it means the Bible in Genesis is fibbing when it says all animals were vegetarian: "...And to every wild beast of the earth and to every flying creature of the heavens and to everything moving ...I have given all green vegetation for food." (Genesis 1:30)

  • LoveUniHateExams

    Meet Homo neanderthalensis: and Homo ergaster:

    Neanderthals lives tens of thousands of years ago and H. ergaster lived well over a millions years ago. There're not modern humans but are placed in the same genus. I believe Neanderthal DNA is particularly close to ours.
    I wonder if these two dudes will be resurrected and have a bible study in the new system?
  • Half banana
    Half banana

    Hi ILTTATT, the thing hidden from Jdubs is the whole of the scholarly world.

    Just a general point to illustrate is that Wikipedia is not part of that academic method, however useful it may seem as an everyday reference, it cannot be guaranteed impartial or accurate. Neither is popular science, popular psychology, popular archaeology...and what with imagining that everything that the GB says is from God; Jdubs are floundering in intellectual darkness!

    The problem for the layman is that academic works are written using concise language and rigorous argumentation in establishing a matter from evidence, knowing they will be challenged on all statements by their very well informed peers. This is the best known method to make headway or achieve a bridgehead in any particular discipline; it is necessary to establish facts. It is not sufficient to simply assert an idea, it is necessary to give concrete reasons based on testable, repeatable experimentation or logical argument. Another illustrative point is that generally the use of the word ‘logic’ within academic writing refers to something which cannot be argued against.

    Contrast academia with the lazy, casual, often threatening dictates of the JW cult and the pathetic appeal to emotions. There is no ‘logic’ involved in what they assert, no arduous research, no steely resolve to elucidate truthfulness, instead just a susceptibility to obedience and fear demanded on the pretext of pleasing God which in practice means serving the interests of the cult leaders.

    In view of all I have said, I don’t know of any popular books on the subject of archaeological dating methods but an overview can easily be found on the net. (Ah! Cofty has a good academic one) I have some experience doing prehistoric archaeology and the key to dating all artefacts and bones is the initial dating of the context of the depositional layers in which the item is found..Subsequent scientific analysis is necessary to confirm or even disprove and refine the time period. Since prehistory takes place over geological time it is vital to understand the rhythmic climate changes which occurred giving rise to the specific environmental conditions in which human life was experienced at the different climatic periods. This may sound trivial but is an absolute base-line ground plan for the pre-historian. Cold equals dry and desert conditions, warm equals wet and lush vegetation and all intergrades between. These are known from the earth-sciences and dated carefully.

    This is the way of science, no miracles, just the plodding investigation and data determinations which build up a coherent picture of the past world in which humans lived even through the ice age which meant a mean annual temperature where I live in southern England of minus 3 degrees Celsius. (Known from the formation of ’ice wedges’ which only occur at this temperature and evidence of which remain visible today in local gravel pits and quarries).

    You want an incontrovertible piece of evidence that mankind lived a long time ago. You first need to realise that the climate changes were dramatic and that during the last ice episode in the northern hemisphere, which finished only about twelve thousand years ago, the world's rainfall was commuted into vast ice sheets at the poles to a spectacular degree and one consequence of this was that the sea levels were correspondingly lower. We are talking by up to four hundred feet. Here is my experience, I was in Cassis on the south coast of France east of Marseilles and met Henri Cosquer a diver. In 1985 he discovered a cave now named after him but the entrance to his cave is 37 meters below today’s sea level. Inside the cave he found as did Howard Carter in the Egyptian royal tombs; “wonderful things.” M Cosquer in diving gear swam into the submerged cave and some distance inside and on a rising plane came to a dry zone above the present sea level with the walls covered with hand stencils and depictions of animals some now extinct such as the ice age megaloceros (deer with giant antlers) and birds such as the great auk.

    So when were these paintings and wall etchings made? It could only have been when the sea water level was low enough to allow access without diving gear and that was before the ice melted and the sea level rose. In fact all the evidence shows that the Cosquer cave is dated to 27,000 years before present. Most of the numerous painted caves in France are from the late Paleolithic period between 38,000 and 15,000 bp before, during and at the end of the worst part of the ice age.

    No question of humans having lived in the remote past. Take (or send!) your family on holiday to the Perigord region of France especially to Les Eyzies de Tayac, the pre-historic capital of Europe, the evidence is overwhelming.

  • 88JM
    An answer to creationist's attacks on c-14 dating:

    Yes you can try to shoot down their pathetic excuses for ignoring C-14 dating, but they always tend to retreat to the excuse of: "Satan altered it to test us" or "God-magic changed everything".

    Really you have to point out that there are many many reliable corroborating methods of archaeological dating. If someone is willing to dismiss so many multiple lines of evidence under the excuse of "God-magic", then they are beyond reasoning and it means God is playing a total game with us.

  • marmot

    Here's some great evidence that I like to use. Stone spear points found embedded in extinct bison bones over 10,000 years old in Folsom, New Mexico.

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