Thanks for the reasoning, Pat.
Too much damn emotion when it comes to this horsepucky.
ash
SHOULD THE HAITIANS BE ALLOWED TO STAY?
by Mary 33 Replies latest jw friends
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Yerusalyim
Keep the Haitians here in a compound until we can verify their identification to ensure they're not wanted criminals or terrorists, then issue them work permits and give them a year or so to get on their feet. I agree with O'Reilly, we need to come up with a system allowing guest workers to come in and do the jobs no American wants to do, but there needs to be a legal system in place to do this.
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Mary
D8TA, I found your posts very interesting but have a question: if the drug lords are running the show in Haiti, why the hell doesn't the US government go in, get rid of the drug lords, instill democracy and give these people a chance for a decent life?
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Cavalier
This issue pisses me off big time
I agree with the thought of some here that people should enter the U.S. in accord with laws/procedures in place to do so, but this should apply to everyone entering this country. Why the double standard regarding the Cubans that reach land and the Haitians that reach land?? I discovered this by following news articles during the Elian affair.
The article in today's USA TODAY carries these quotes "Unlike Cubans who reach dry land, Haitian immigrants usually are denied asylum in the United States and sent back to their homeland". . . "It's very sad to see the way human beings who are fleeing their country for a better way of life are treated," said North Miami Mayor Joe Celestin, a Haitian-American who went to the scene and spoke to some of the migrants. "The Cubans that were on the same boat will be released. The Haitians will probably be deported. It's a double standard."
How can the U.S. justify this bull$hit?????
Edited by - cavalier on 30 October 2002 11:44:39
Edited by - cavalier on 30 October 2002 12:37:0
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Mulan
Okay..............I see your point, Jay.
Maybe some of them should be allowed to stay. I was always heartsick at the ones who drowned trying to get here. If they will be killed or abused worse, if they go back, then they should stay here.
In our area, there is a man, who was the personal pilot for the President of Syria. He and his family came here several years ago, literally escaping, and started a Mediterranean grocery store. The son is the only one with permanent status. The parents and their daughter are in custody, for nearly a year at INS headquarters in Seattle. The INS says they have to go back because their Visa expired or green card denied or some such foolishnes. They know the father will be executed immediately if they go back. To me, this is a no brainer. Let them stay. The store is about a mile from my house, and it is covered in yellow ribbons. The locals do fund raisers outside the store, to raise money for the son, to keep him from being evicted. Americans do rally for the oppressed.............even Muslims.
Thanks for the mind check, Jay. I stand corrected.
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jst_me
Just for the record, Americans WONT work harvesting the fields because the farmers do not pay those workers even minimum wage. In my home state (Florida) they have successfully tried two slavery cases relating to the farmers and South American workers in the last few years. This country depends on exploiting workers in order to eliminate one of the biggest business expenses, labor.
The Coalition of Immokalee workers has an awesome page, I have marched and demonstrated with these people and STILL refuse to eat at Taco Bell in support of them:
For those of you who want to send them back, I say dont stop there. Send EVERYONE back whose people did not originate here (and the land bridge theory is just that....a theory...my ancestors have been in the mountains of TN GA and NC for thousands of years!) I think it takes a hell of alot of nerve to steal the land and then act all high and mighty about adhering to the racist laws that were made to make sure no one can try and steal it back.
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Crazy151drinker
Send their asses back!!!
Since when did we just let people stroll in here???????????? Send the Cubans back to.
I tell you what. We need a new Elis Island Compound.
Let em in. Make sure there not trouble. Teach them some English. PROCESS them. And send them out here to Cali so they can work in the fields. The Mexicans have been doing it long enough and they need a break.
With proper PROCEDURES it can work. Look at the Mexican/Hispanic/whatever and Asian communities. The vast majority of Second generation immigrants are kicking ASS and are down right AMERICANS.
Sooooo in conclusion, let them stay, just not right now.
D8TA, in the words of homer simpson "If you dont like it, go to Russia" Dont preach to me on some bullshit tax crap. Tell your friends to go to Sweden, the social benefits are much greater and its easier to get in.
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Crazy151drinker
oh and the Native Americans got fucked and need reperations.
Im not against immigration, im against UNDOCUMENTED immigration. I dont give a rats ass about VISA's. Let them all in- DOCUMENTED and with some basic english skills while their at it. And give them some SHIT jobs. The vast majority of all of our immigrating relatives had SHIT jobs when they got here. Let the tradition continue.
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D8TA
I can find displeasure with ANY policy in the U.S. and still stay where ever I please.
Homer Simpson doesn't mean jack shit....try these links that actually PROTECT my reasoning:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.overview.html
http://memory.loc.gov/const/bor.html
For those who simply throw out the "proper procedure" and "within the OUR law" argument.
Evidently you arguing from a standpoint of ignorance.
Now please, as I've requested before....SHOW ME HOW PEOPLE FROM HAITI ARE ABLE TO CONTACT THE U.S. GOVERNMENT IN ORDER TO REACH OUR SHORE THRU "LEGAL" MEANS! This also entitles you to show the board exactly how Haitians also have to get PERMISSION FROM THEIR OWN GOVERNMENT TO COME HERE!
Oh wait! That's right! The Haitian government has a prohibitions as to their citizens asking to leave! DUH! AS DO MANY OTHER COUNTRIES!
What other "options" do you think people have? Please....list the options of people who are prohibited by their OWN GOVERNMENTS to go thru normal avenues of procedure as to coming to the U.S.
Oh...that's right, you don't understand that other countries don't really have the same "human rights" values as we do in the U.S. You simply think that it's just a matter of inconvenience for people who wish to leave, right? That they can just simply express their displeasure with the murderous and corrupt regimes, and just walk around without reprecussions....such as murder.
That leaves the whole "FLEEING - ESCAPING - RUNNING AWAY" option!
My point is not to change anybody's opinion on this issue...simply provide an argument for those who wish to come to this country.
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Now to Mary's question:
if the drug lords are running the show in Haiti, why the hell doesn't the US government go in, get rid of the drug lords, instill democracy and give these people a chance for a decent life?
Drug lords and politicians...the two supreme powers in which rule most countries of South America. Unfortunately, even after the U.S. aids a country in to a "democratic" system, drug lords always stay in power.
These people just don't simply give up power, and they have a Hydra effect. ( Hydra - the multiple headed monster which Hercules fought, and when he cut off one head another would grow in to place. ) You kill of a one lord, another takes his/her place within a matter of a day. Not only that, these people are armed, amazingly...how these people arm their drug-soldiers with AMERICAN MADE hardware and guns is beyond me, as to their methods of getting their hands on AMERICAN MADE hardware is beyond me. They wont simply walk away from their lucrative enterprises, nor will they negotiate. They fight their own domestic authorities thru para-military means. If the U.S. were to "go in, get rid of the drug lords"...it would mean a pretty hefty military operation. This isn't a "CIA goes in an assassinate a few" solution. The drug lords are armed, and ready for a fight.
Not only that, I don't think many countries would appreciate the fact of a foreign government coming on to their soil, erradicating what a certain country deems as a "domestic" problem. Not to mention, the politicians also have to face the enevitable fact that the drug lords are part of the "power" system of their country.
These drug lords are unlike U.S. mafia or street gangs. These drug lords know how to provide "services" for the people. A country in debt such as Brazil for example: Need a hospital? Government cant build one? Guess who does? Yep, the drug lord. Need medical help, food, pick anything....Government to poor to help? Guess who does? The drug lord. They cater to the population beyond selling their vile poison. They've made a nice little cut in to the system of control.
This whole subject about the political and social relationships that involve the drug lords would take about 3 pages of explanation. I suggest, to anyone who has the motivation to learn about it....do research, read books, scour the internet. But I warn you, what you read may not sit well with you. Not in the way these drug lords deal with their own domestic authorities, but how they deal with our own U.S. authorties. That the U.S. DOES recognize these drug lords as "political entities", and thru open means...negotiate and have what is called a "back door diplomatic process". It's fact. It's truth. It happens.
This subject opens a whole different discussion as to immigration, but is a subject that deals with the many reasons as to WHY people leave.
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Mary
Thanks D8TA; I don't believe there's any one simple solution to the problem, but I figure if Bush is willing to go in and bomb the crap out of Saddam Hussein, I'd like to see him get rid of the obviously oppressive government in Haiti.............make Haiti the 51st State of the Union!
I heard on CNN last night that the reason these people will most likely be sent back is because the States doesn't view Haiti and Cuba the same: Cuba is a Communist country, which means it's obviously oppressive; Haiti is not a Communist country (not that we can see), and is "friendly" towards the USA, so the US government sends the people back.