Bill Bowen's unfortunate attack

by Jim Penton 86 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

  • BeautifulGarbage
    BeautifulGarbage

    Thank you, Mr. Penton for your evenhanded post. A few things that I especially noted:

    No doubt that there is basis to many of the allegations presented there, but allegations remain allegations until proven in courts of law


    Yes, allegations are not facts. When allegations are assumed to be fact, it is dangerous for all of us.

    Yet I cannot say this with certainly, and there may be one reason to suggest that such abuse is quite high among Witnesses; many come from marginalized groups within American society where such abuse is common. However, there are many marginalized persons among the other religions that I have just mentioned, and consequently it is not surprising that they too have lots of sexual child abuse. But the real point is this: Bills evidence is not the statistical evidence that any scholar or court of law would accept. He certainly hasnt done anything like a sociological study of Jehovahs Witness, nor has he done any study on any other religious community. So what is his basis of his comparison? He has none.

    I suspected that there was no factual basis to the statement that pedophilia was more common in the WTS than in other religions.

    Andee

    Edited by - BeautifulGarbage on 28 October 2002 20:35:51

  • Dutchie
    Dutchie

    Hello Mr. Penton and welcome to the board.

    I respect your opinions but I must say that although I have heard many criticisms of Mr. Bowen for the last couple of weeks, you are the first to categorize his language as "crude." So now even the language he chooses to use is wrong. Poor Bill just cannot seem to get a break.

    What about the suits he wears? How do you feel about those?

    (Ever notice that when someone says that you are a voice of reason they are saying that you agree with their opinion?)

    Edited by - Dutchie on 28 October 2002 20:42:36

  • IslandWoman
    IslandWoman

    Dutchie,

    What about the suits he wears? How do you feel about those?

    Gee, I don't know. If he rolled up his jacket and threw it at someone well, I guess I'd have an opinion about that. But his suits I have not seen for myself, only his posts!

    IW

  • Brummie
    Brummie

    His suits are not too bad at all but his TShirts are a lot better "Stop WTAbuse"...I guess you wouldnt like them though IW, since they reek of the very message Bill Bowen has attempted to bring to the public eye

    Brummie

  • hamptonite21
    hamptonite21

    I guess IW is posting without her meds again, Why are you so angry? Try using your energy some where else! ugh!

  • TR
    TR

    Jim,

    Thanks for your perspective and your book.

    TR

  • minimus
    minimus

    Thank you Jim for posting your wise opinion . We can only hope that a person of your experience and balance will continue to post here on a regular basis!

  • SEAKEN2001
    SEAKEN2001

    Welcome to the board Jim. Your comments are welcome and I hope you will decide to continue to contribute. But you have to know that a lot of us here will not agree with your position. Personally, I object to the last part of your little missive, as quoted here

    Unfortunately, this whole affair has not been healthy or upbuilding, and if Bill thinks he is going to gain much by attacking a man who has been responsible for the liberation of thousands of Jehovahs Witnesses, he should think again. Whether Ray was right, wrong or indifferent to the issue at hand, there is no valid reason to attack him. Furthermore, none of us including Ray Franz - is required to do anything unless his or her conscience tells him or her to do so. For freedom Christ set us free.‑ Gal. 5:1

    This sounds like a JW elder preaching from the platform and chewing out an apostate threat in his congregation. I listened to a talk just like this directed at me when I started to question the leaders who presumed to be a special tool of God and Christ. I object to your supposition that Ray was a liberator, as if God were using him to lead people away from the evil kingdom of the Watchtower. I think even he will object to such an idea. And since when is it wrong to disagree or even attack another person who makes himself your adversary? That's typical of those who think they are more special than they really are. I don't know you at all and I haven't read your books. But it is obvious from your comments here that you think Ray Franz is some special force for good. I think that's rediculous. I don't think Bill Bowen is some specially appointed force for goodness either. But I have met him and I don't think he believes there is "no valid reason" to attack him. He has appologized for his part in contributing to the problem, as an elder under the authority of the WT Society. I read Rays books and appreciated them. But I don't remember him appologizing for his part in the inhumanity his "body" of governors has inflicted on innocent victims in this matter of child abuse. Ray is forgiven, and I think most of us realize he was duped like the rest of us. But why not admit to his part in the debacle perpetrated by the Society he once fully supported? Seems only fair.

    I also can't believe that so many of you still feel that God or Christ is at all involved in this whole affair. Whether JW's or Catholics or Mormons. It's all the same. God is not participating. It is man abusing man. Stop looking for answers in the sky. The answer is within ourselves. The more of mankind that stands up to abuse, like Bill and others are now doing, facing powerful systems of deceipt and control, the better off we will be in the future. I agree that no one should be convicted on allegation alone. That is also a crime. Certainly, BOTH crimes should be punished according to the degree of severity they deserve. There is no perfect solution. But I think that there is more good, more that is 'upbuilding' and 'healthy', in arguing the merits of all sides than there is in suggesting that no arguments or attacks erupt.

    Again, while I am critical of your viewpoint I am happy to welcome you to the forum. This has proven to be a very useful place when adjusting one's mind to accomodate the opposing view. I hope this whole matter will prove to be beneficial for all involved. Maybe you will prove useful in preparing those missing studies you speak of so that we can have more data when the courts start getting more involved.

    Sean Kennedy

  • minimus
    minimus

    Franz did help liberate many who were Witnesses. Maybe not you, though. He did help release and set free many whose consciences were in crisis.

  • jst2laws
    jst2laws

    Thanks Jim,

    We needed a fresh and reasonable perspective.

    To everyone, I am so angry about what has been going on I have promised myself to not post my views until I get control of my feelings. Meanwhile thanks to everyone here who has been able to stick to the issues despite their personal feelings. If necessary I will eventually address the Bill/Ray conflict but would rather it go away.

    Jst2laws

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