Bill Bowen's unfortunate attack

by Jim Penton 86 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

  • Gilgamesh
    Gilgamesh

    Jim Penton, COJ, Amazing, silentlambs, and so many others,

    After some prodding (from a JW) I finally took a look at this forum and I must say that I've enjoyed reading hundreds of posts. I have been reading all day and most of last night. This is quite a lively forum.

    Yesterday, I jumped in a bit hastily, and in a new thread, no less, after reading only a few key posts (from the names I listed above). Looks like I am not the only newbie dragged in by the issue at hand.

    Watching the misunderstandings and polarizations is so draining. It takes a lot of courage to state what you think under these conditions. It's impossible to agree with, or even be agreeable with, such a variety of opinions, but I'll bet the majority here are happy to see some new recognizable personalities. Just the last few days of postings represent a wealth of thoughtful, thought-provoking and some just plain old provoking posts. I hope two out of three of these categories continue well after the current issue grows colder. So many good issues are already under discussion.

    Gilgamesh

  • johnathanseagull
    johnathanseagull

    "Bill seems to think that Jehovahs Witnesses are more guilty of child sexual abuse than members of other religions"

    Proof please before you judge

    J Gull

  • stichione
    stichione

    Thanks for the post Jim. I thoroughly enjoyed reading it!

  • chasson
    chasson

    Hi Jim,

    finally, I want to reply briefly to the gentleman from France. Yes, I know what is taking place in France. I have read the reports of the commision, have read the new anti-cult (secte) law and think that both are infamous. When the Jesuits, the Quakers, the Salvation Army, Baptists, and any number of other long-standing religious groups are so stigmatized, I feel there is something wrong with the heads of members of the French Parliament.

    This is nothing more than scientology's propaganda that US' s commission has believed. Jesuit, Quakers, Baptist and Salvation Army were not on the 173 'cult list and the french's parliament has decided to stop to make list there are two years ago.

    So, your information are TOTALLY FALSE and are coming from scientology, how a US's commission could take some stupid information is surprising me.

    Bye

    Charles

  • hippikon
    hippikon

    Up until now I havent much been involved in the child abuse debate. I agree with your comments. On the one hand I had a friend commit suicide as a result of emotional problems caused by child abuse but on the other, having seen a man loose his house due to the false accusation of child abuse. He was proven not guilty in court but it was too late as his house had been vandalized and some in the community (who didnt avail themselves of the facts) had already judged him. When I read Bills comments I thought it was a case of If you wont join my crusade you must be against me! Perhaps Bill is a bit fond of the hero status he seems to have aquired?

  • deddaisy
    deddaisy

    Mr. Penton,

    I realize you stated that you were finished with this thread, but I only just now read your response and will still comment, if for no other reason, to address a few of your statements.

    So, is the fact that the woman is a prostitute something that should not be brought up in court? Most people, being asked the question in this way today would say "no." But there is another side to the matter. Perhaps the woman gave consensual sex and then demanded more money from the "john." Now the john will argue that the sex was not rape at all but consensual sex. So at that point (note: without any second witness against the john or any physical evidence), the john's lawyer tries to bring in evidence to say that because the woman is a prostitute (a fact that can be proven), she is trying to punish the man for not giving her more money. Now should the fact of her professon be brought in or not? What is more important in this instance, the probative evidence or the possibility of prejudice?-----Jim Penton

    (emphasis added)

    If I understand correctly, according to your posts, you're alleging that the defense attorney wants to bring into evidence the profession of the alleged rape victim, but due to the action of radical feminists who brought about a change in law, which you imply now holds that the accused in a rape trial is not innocent until proven guilty in some jurisdictions of the US and Canada, this attorney is unfairly unable to do so.

    I am not familar with Canadian law, but would feel safe in betting that if your above scenario came up in a US court room, the defense attorney would be able to bring into evidence this woman's profession as long as it was relevant to this alleged rape. If this john's testimony is that a "disagreement regarding money occurred after sex," then his testimony is certainly relevant to this case. The "shield laws" which were enacted in the US in the 70's and 80's were done so in an effort to "shield" rape victims from harrassment from defense attorneys who would bring up irrelevant evidence of a victim's PRIOR sexual conduct, not to keep out the defendant's relevant testimony. Because of the humiliation of the rape itself, combined with this treatment at trial, it was believed that a large number of rapes went unreported. Rape shield laws prevent evidence of prior sexual conduct, except WITH THE DEFENDANT.

    And I agree, noone deserves to raped, not a prostitute, not a child. If in fact your scenario included an "off duty" prostitute who was raped in a park while she was jogging, by a rapist who didn't know or care what her profession was, do you feel her profession relevant evidence at trial? How about if she had a child out of wedlock? Don't you agree that an alleged rape victim's PRIOR sexual conduct, except for that involving the defendant, is irrelevant and should therefore be inadmissable? If a home is broken into, the home-owner raped and her home burglarized, should it matter whether she's a prostitute or a secretary? How about how many sex partners she's had in the past? This line of questioning was, I believe, the reason for the enactment of the rape shield law. There are also laws that may keep a defendant's prior criminal activity from being admissable. These certainly are not laws that hold that a person is "not innocent" until proven guilty.

    The entire tone of your initial post, from your choice of words, to your defense of the two-witness policy, to the comments and scenarios regarding radicals and crusades, subtly give the impression that it isn't only Mr. Bowen's words regarding Mr. Franz that frustrate you, but your belief that this "cause" itself is an unwarranted witch hunt. Your implying that innocent persons will be brought to ruin at the hands of this "crusade," appears to be a bit exagerrated. Mr. Bowen, as far as I'm aware of, has never approached the judicial system claiming that any accused molester should be imprisoned without as much as a trial, but has instead worked to expose an outdated, unrealistic, harmful policy on the behalf of those that cannot do so for themselves.

    With this two-witness rule, the authorities would most likely not be contacted even if there were two witnesses to the molestation, allowing a molester to move on without so much as a report filed. Are you aware of the fact that molestation victims often have bruising inside? This is evidence, Mr. Penton. Evidence that a medical doctor, not an elder, should be investigating. And certainly there are bound to be children making false allegations, just as there are adults making false allegations. But a criminal allegation, be it the molestation of a child or the rape of an adult, should allow the authorities to speak to the accused and accuser, in order to determine if there may possibly be any evidence to substantiate the allegation. You say on one hand that there is no problem with the two-witness policy, then on the other hand you say the authorities should be contacted. How do you expect the authorities to consistently be contacted with a two-witness policy unless this policy's vulnerability is addressed? And how will this policy be addressed without first being exposed? Expecting a child to live with abuse after being silenced regarding it, then expecting this child to attempt to heal years later in a court, is, like my mother used to say, a bit like attempting to close the barn door after the horse is out.

    Edited by - deddaisy on 4 November 2002 20:2:23

    Edited by - deddaisy on 4 November 2002 23:48:29

  • caseya
    caseya

    Controversey between Bill Bowen, Ray Franz and Jim Penton

    Ordinarily I do not get involved in controversies of this nature.
    However, I believe there are some inaccuracies in the statements
    made by all of the above, not deliberately or to support a certain
    position with respect to pedophiles and child molestation in the
    congregations of JWs, but rather because of the 'era' or time
    period with which each of the above are familiar. My association
    with JWs has expanded the entire period covered by all three men
    above.

    Ray Franz gives his perspective from having spent many years in
    the missionary work in the Carribean followed by his view from a
    seat on the governing body. Neither vantage point gives a
    complete picture of what was going on at that time. Jim Penton
    presents his view as an elder in Lethbridge, a small city on the
    Canadian Prairies, during the 1970's decade. Since he would be
    viewed as a foreigner in the congregations where he spent time
    such as the four American States Puerto Rico and Spain he would
    not be entrusted with judicial matters of this nature. Because of
    the emphasis on confidentiality neither the elders nor the members
    of the congregation who knew about cases of Pedophylia would
    confide in him even though he served as an elder. Only in Canada
    would his position as an elder bring him into contact with cases
    of Pedophilia. It is quite possible that there were no cases of
    Pedophilia in the congregations in Lethbridge.

    Considering the different vantage points of these two men, I
    believe what both of these men say is the truth insofar as the
    time period of which they are familiar. However, both project the
    environment as they saw it then as applying to the present
    environment within the congregations of JW's in the decade of the
    90's. To do so is to ignore the fact that the scene of this world
    is changing. 1 Cor.7:31

    In the past decade, victims of child abuse have come forward
    because for the first time in their lives, there are those who
    will believe them. In past decades, no one would believe such
    reports especially if the accusations were against people in
    authority, in whatever walk of life or religious affiliation. The
    victim simply suffered in secrecy amidst a sea of humanity
    dominated by male chauvanism. The victim although a child was
    customarily blamed for the assault on himself, by what he said,
    how he dressed or what he did. The same was true of rape victims
    and is still somewhat true today, who fail to report the crime
    because of the public shame with which they will be crowned.

    In the decades of the 50's, 60's and 70's the statements of
    children were not accepted as truthful, but rather as figments of
    their imaginations or dreams. The credence of statements of
    adults always took precedence over that of children. Thus it was
    during that period that children's reports of sexual assault were
    neither believed by the parents nor the elders. Viewing statements
    from children with such little importance the elders very seldom
    reported such accusations to their superiors (CO's or DO's). Since
    both CO's & DO's were of the same generation and of the same
    mental dispositions, seldom would they report any such cases
    presented to them, to the branch offices. With this background, I
    can well understand why Ray Franz never came across a case of
    pedophilia in this 40 years of service with the Watchtower.

    We must never make the same mistake as the ridiculers who say that
    " all things are continuing exactly as from creation's beginning"
    that was fortold as charactistic of the last days. 2 Pe.3:4
    Both Ray Franz and Jim Penton have failed to avoid this snare,
    they fail to accept the report made by those who are now on the
    front lines in the battle against wickedness and injustice. Times
    have changed, things are not as they always were. Bill Bowen is
    presenting to the governing body and to the whole world the truth
    about the way things are now, the environment that victims of
    pedophilia find themselves in the the congregations of JW's. It
    takes men of great moral character and fortitude to stand up on
    behalf of these "orphans and widows" and tell it how it is. Jas.
    1:27

    Ray Franz is quoted as saying that when he penned the directions
    for judicial committees regarding applying Mt. 18:15-17 he did not
    intend that these steps be applied to cases of child molestation.
    Yes, I agree, he clearly stated that "the offences here discussed
    were limited in nature to such as could be settled between the
    individuals involved. This would not include such offences as
    fornication, adultery, homosexuality ..." OR pp. 157-158. Child
    molestation and incest are porneia or fornication. He was
    therefore instructing elders that Mt 18;15 is not to be used in
    handling such offences.

    In contrast to this direction the Watchtower of November 1, 1995
    directs that "if the sufferer decides that he wants to make an
    accusation...then the two elders can advise him that in line with
    the principle at Mt 18:15, he should personally approach the
    accused about the matter". I can think of no direction which
    shows such a complete lack of understanding of the dynamics of
    child abuse as this one. If this is not so then the person giving
    such direction must have the same moral character as the pedophile
    himself. To apply Mt. 18;15 would cause the victim to relive the
    terrifying and the horrific experience of the abuse. Such would
    give the pedophile the opportunity to reinforce his earlier
    threats of intimidation. Only a pedophile could willingly put a
    victim through such an ordeal.

    I agree with Jim Penton insofar as most judicial hearings are
    concerned, the two witnesses principle is biblical and needs to be
    adhered to. However, 1 Tim. 5:19 says, "Do not admit an
    accusation against an older man, except on the evidence of two or
    three witnesses." Need these always be eye witnesses. I hardly
    think so, especially in the case of pedophilia. A semen sample
    left on the victims clothes, bruises left on the torso can
    corroborate the testimony of the victim. Why can not those
    presenting evidence of this nature comprise the two or three
    witnesses required in this scriptural injunction. Watchtower
    policy requiring two witnesses claims to be Bible-based. To be
    truly Bible-based the policy must encompass all Bible principles
    pertaining to the offence. 1 Tim.5:20 says, " Reprove before all
    onlookers persons who practice sin that the rest may also have
    fear". The Watchtower policy requires that elders keep cases of
    pedophilia secret under the guise of confidentiality. Elders and
    others that do not adhere to this are difellowshipped. The
    branches have directed that those who have gone public with this
    problem, be disfellowshipped. This violates the scriptural
    injunction in verse 21 that admonishes, "to keep these things
    without prejudgment, doing nothing according to a biased leaning."
    How can elders comply with this when they have been instructed by
    the branch or governing body to disfellowship such persons before
    a judicial committee meeting is convened.

    The elders discourage victims and their parents from reporting to
    the authorities by informing them that they can go to the
    authorities but they must be prepared to accept the consequences
    for doing so. In turn the governing body of the Watchtower
    discourages elders from reporting cases of pedophylia to the
    authorities when they direct them to report to the authorities in
    states where they are required to do so by law. Why not in all
    states and jurisdictions even though there exists no law requiring
    them to do so. Is a crime less serious in some states than
    others? Another Bible principle that should be included in a
    Bible-based policy is that stated in Lev. 5:1 The authority to
    whom he must report is not the authority of the Christian
    congregation, but Rom 13:4 identifies that authority to be the
    civil authority, "it is God's minister, an avenger to express
    wrath upon the one practicing what is bad."

    Another principle to be considered in a Bible based policy is that
    of caring for orphans and widows in their tribulations. Jas. 1:27
    By failing to identify such ravenous wolves (pedophiles) in the
    congregation the elders are putting all the children at risk.
    Parents need to know who the pedophiles are to protect their
    children. Failure to do so is gross negligence by the body of
    elders and those who instruct the elders to keep the offences
    confidential bear a fearsome responsibility before the Almighty
    God, Jehovah.

    It is this policy of the Governing Body, hypocrically described as
    Bible-based that has made the congregations of JW's a haven for
    pedophiles. The pedophile is free to roam about in the
    congregation undetected, ready to pounce on his prey without
    interference from the elders, but in fact protected by them. When
    Ray Franz and Jim Penton were both associated with JW's no such
    policy existed. In fact,I recall letters from the Branch Office
    reprimanding a Judicial Committee because they allowed a pedophile
    to remain in the congregation. They were told in that letter to
    name the pedophyle and give him public reproof and/or
    disfellowship him from the congregation. This occurred in the mid
    1980's.

    Why is the governing body adopting a policy that protects
    pedophiles and hurts children, I do not know? Is it out of
    ignorance that they do so? Do they not understand the terrible
    consequences to the victims from this abuse? If not out of
    ignorance then it must be that there exist pedophiles in their
    midst determined to keep the problem hidden, so that, in turn they
    will not eventually be exposed. Luke 12:45 A detective, a
    director in charge of officers investigating child abuse once
    confided to me, that if someone in authority shields or protects a
    pedophile that person is likely to be a pedophile himself.

    When it comes to victims of child abuse, the victims do not lie.
    To come forward as an abused victim brings so much hatred and
    public shame on the victim, that seldom would anyone do so
    falsely. Yes, Jim Penton makes the point that some women may
    have accused their husbands to keep the father from seeing the
    children. If that was their motive to make a false accusation,
    they did not realize how much reproach and hardship doing so would
    bring upon them. In such cases there is no evidence that the
    victims themselves initiated such accusations. On the other hand
    when children come forward and tell their mother what has occurred
    more often than not the mother too refuses to believe them. The
    vast majority of women who make the accusation against estranged
    husbands are doing so because they have believed their children or
    they or their doctors have seen evidence of sexual molestation.
    Children that are being sexually abused give charactistic evidence
    of this by their behavior, their emotional stability, their play
    and their speech. Trained psychologists and therapists can easily
    identify such victims, but it is often difficult to get them to
    talk about their ordeal so that the predators can be prosecuted.
    To heal psychologically a child needs to talk about the matter. to
    find someone who believes him and who gives him comfort and
    reassurance to restore his damaged self-image.

    I don't mean to bore the reader with all this description, but I
    distinctly get the impression from the statements that Ray Franz
    and Jim Penton make in their letters that they too lack an
    understanding of the dynamics of child abuse. A recent TV program
    described the growing incidence of child abuse as alarming in the
    United States but as an epidemic in Canada. Why an epidemic in
    Canada? Could it be that Canadians are prone to keep things
    hidden, whereas Americans tend to be more vocal? Bill Bowen is
    not a radical seeking public attention. What Bill has experienced
    is exactly what I have experienced in attempting to get the elders
    and the Society to take action against pedophiles in the decade of
    the 90's. Bill has revealed the extent of the problem by his
    silentlambs website. I only suspected that the problem was so
    widespread, but he had added names to the list in the thousands.
    For the sake of the victims, believe the evidence Bill is
    presenting, it is the only way that this problem will be solved.
    A few years ago, no one in Canada believed that the private
    schools, run by the Catholic Church, The Anglican Church and the
    United Church were havens for predators of child abuse. Yet now,
    these churches are facing bankruptcy because it has been exposed
    in the courts and the victims are seeking redress and
    compensation. Can not the governing body of the Watchtower
    Society learn from the experiences of these religious
    organizations, and recognize they have a problem. They need to
    recognize the problem before they can correct it.
    Disfellowshipping those who draw the problem to their attention is
    not solving the problem. It will not go away, but rather continue
    to grow until it engulfs the whole organization.

    Jim Penton says he is concerned that the 'anti-abuse' movement is
    becoming like the anti-cult movement. I whole heartedly disagree.
    The organizations providing refuge and protection to the predators
    of child abuse are the ones displaying the characteristics of a
    cult. Demanding absolute obedience, tolerating no differing
    opinions, punishing those who do not fall in line. claiming to be
    the spokemen for the Almighty God, claiming to be spirit directed
    in all they do. These are characteristics of a cult. These
    characteristics have never been found among those seeking redress
    for the widespread abuse of children. When has the pursuit of
    justice ever been a danger to civil liberties? The pursuit of
    justice in both the United States and Canada has entrenched civil
    liberties in the constitution of the United States and Canada.
    When an organization punishes or disfellowships a member for
    exercising the right of free speech, that organization is behaving
    like a cult. If an organization does not wish to be identified as
    a cult then it must not behave as a cult. Actions speak louder
    than words.

    Jim Penton says, "there have been far too many cases of false
    accusations of child abuse." Keep in mind that just because
    the accusation cannot be proved in a court of law it is often
    labelled as a false accusation. Very often the problem is not
    that the accusation is false, but rather that there has been
    insufficient conclusive evidence to establish that accusation as
    true in a court of law and yet in fact the accusation may be true
    but one has not been able to come up with sufficient evidence
    to satisfy the court. In my more than 5 decades of association
    with JW's I have encounterd some fifteen convicted pedophiles and
    another nine known, but not turned over to the authorities,
    associated with the congregations. In the recent decade, the
    numbers have mushroomed. Obviously, I have had a different
    vantage point than both Ray Franz and Jim Penton to be aware of so
    many. As to whether there are more among JW's proportionally than
    most other religious groups I would have to agree with Bill Bowen.
    Whenever an organization functions with an internal judicial
    system abuses are prevalent. In the past decade the congregations
    have become havens for pedophiles. Of all the pedophiles I have
    been acquainted with above, only a few have ever been
    disfellowshipped. Even though disfellowshipped, usually they have
    been reinstated within a year. It is known that about 80 percent
    of boys that have been sexually abused will themselves become
    predators in adult life. Think of the multiplier effect this has
    on the number of pedophiles in the congregations.

    Until the governing body recognizes a problem exists, I have
    little hope that the situation will change without the direct
    intervention of the Almighty God, Jehovah.

    Truly yours,
    Casey A.

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