The WTS teaches, that from 1914 onward, a sign has been evident, which is proof of God's Kingdom. JW profess to see that sign. A "sign" means evidence from God. ( Otherwise, it ain't no sign. ) My question on this thread is: Have you seen "the sign" that the WTS refers to as the sign that people refuse to see and will be forced to see when the "son of man is revealed?"
What is the "sign" of "Christ's Invisible Presence?"
by Fisherman 55 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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CalebInFloroda
EThe hope of the Israelite people was that when the Messianic Age or kingdom began to rule, people would not have to ask one another if it was truly here. The Jewish prophets predict a time of prosperity for the Jews and for the Gentile. Not only would Israel be on its land again but a third Temple would stand in Jerusalem (this last part being the only "sign," if you want to call it that, which would mark the arrival of the Messianic Age as unmistakable).
The so-called "sign of Christ's presence" as taught be JWs is significantly flawed. First they claim a Messianic rule that is invisible and entails a series of events contrary to the prosperity foretold and hoped for by the Jewish people since antiquity.
Next it is problematic as the JW eschatology is overrun with mistakes. The Parousia is interpreted as an "insivible" presence instead of a "state" presence or "royal tour of one's kingdom," which is what a "parousia" was in the Hellenistic and Roman world in the first century.
To make matters worse, the Witness make a "sign" out of events which Jesus states are not indicative of his arrival. The discourse regarding the destruction of the Second Temple is used as an eschatological sounding board for events leading to the Second Coming, but each recording of it (Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21) states that wars, earthquakes, famines and plagues are NOT signs that the end is upon them and thus no reason to panic. The JWs mistakenly claim otherwise.
There is a peculiar mention of false preachers associated with the "end of the world" who get it wrong in Luke 21. The text reads:
"Beware that you are not lead astray; for many will come in my name and say: I AM and, 'The time is near!' Do not go after them."-- Luke 21.8, NRSV with footnote reading inserted into text.*
In other words Jesus may here be warning that a group claiming to be Christians will go about using the Divine Name (or a form of it) and proclaim that the time of the end is near. Jesus says about them: "Do not go after them."
*--Generally rendered "I am he!", Luke uses the Greek term EGO EIMI, a euphemistic abbreviation of the Divine Name which literally reads: I AM. The NRSV has "I am" as the alternate reading here due to the fact that the NRSV translation committee felt an equal amount of evidence existed to support a reading that suggested that this false group would be using the Divine Name as part of their attempt to get people to believe their incorrect interpretation. I have placed it here within the text to draw an interesting parallel with the JWs. Regardless of this, even with the original reading intact the text shows that any people proclaiming that the time of the end is near are not to be followed by Christ's disciples.
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Fisherman
the Greek term EGO EIMI, a euphemistic abbreviation of the Divine Name.
Debatable, and hardly "eyeh asher eyeh," See Rashi Torah commentary. And neither does YHVH mean I AM.
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Fisherman
The so-called "sign of Christ's presence" as taught be JWs is significantly flawed
Certainly, a "teaching" could be flawed or viewed as flawed, but not a sign. A sign is remarkable evidence from God. It is not a teaching.
When Simon bar Giora defeated the Roman armies in the same place Jehovah caused sun and moon to stand still for Joshua, Simon should have listened to Jesus' prophecy: "The sun will be turned into darkness and the moon will not give its light.." In contrast with Joshua's victory, Simon would not wipe out his enemies as Joshua did. The reverse was true.
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OUTLAW
The WTS teaches, that from 1914 onward, a sign has been evident, which is proof of God's Kingdom.
My question on this thread is: Have you seen "the sign" that the WTS refers to as the sign that people refuse to see and will be forced to see when the "son of man is revealed?".....Fisherman
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Nathan Natas
ALL I know is that you need an ultraviolet flashlight to see the "sign of Christ's presence."
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Fisherman
Outlaw, if WTS was in it for the money, they would want everyone to go to college and to work more. But WTS tells the RF not to work so much but to go into the FTW. How is that worshiping money?
Funny post by the way. LOL
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sparrowdown
I have seen plenty of "signs" as to the WT's true character.
That's why I Ieft, wouldn't want to be standing too close once the lightening bolts from heaven start flying.
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Crazyguy
I think they started out saying the great tribulation broke out in 1914 (ww1) this was the sign. Then they backed off the great tribulation and now mostly say that were in the end times because see how bad the world is getting. -
Ucantnome
When I was baptised I understood the 'sign' as
'the act of God's Son in receiving authority from his Sovereign Father to rule in an everlasting kingdom. This event brought the establishment or "birth of his kingly rule.
...This visible sign follows after and results from the invisible "sign of the Son of man," since it is composed of the many events and conditions that the Bible fore told would follow and result from the establishment of Christ's Kingdom rule it is , therefore a composite sign...'(WT 1966 Jan 15 pg 38)
The sign being in verse 30 of Matthew 24.
In the book "Things In Which It Is Impossible For God To Lie" (WT 1965) page 339 in the footnote it mentions that the Greek word for 'sign' is the Greek Septuagint of the Hebrew scriptures is given the meaning of 'standard, signal, ensign.' (Isaiah 11:12) and 'The Bible translation by Dr. Ferrar Fenton uses the word "signal" in Matthew 24:3,30.'
The book Man's Salvation Out of World Distress At Hand! (WT 1975) subheading "A Signal For The Peoples" page 197 after quoting Isaiah 11:10 it says, It is "in that day," since the Gentile times ended in 1914 C.E that this must occur.
page 198
However, the prophecy applies more particularly "in that day." We have been in that day since the birth of God's Messianic kingdom in the heavens in 1914 C.E. Then the glorified Jesus Christ, "the root of Jesse," stood up in Kingdom authority to deal with all the nations of the earth. (Matthew 25;31,32)
Fisherman your questions
What is the "sign" of "Christ's Invisible Presence?"
Have you seen "the sign" that the WTS refers to as the sign that people refuse to see and will be forced to see when the "son of man is revealed?"
I agreed at my baptism with the Watchtower in 1966 when it said
'There is one sign today that is of the highest importance to every person on earth. For us to see it, to understand it correctly and to act in accord with it promptly will spell the difference between life and death for each of us.'
and i was one who was part of 'over a million persons in all parts of the globe today acknowledge that they have been enabled to "see" "the sign of the Son of Man" and recognize its meaning' (WT 1966)
However in the February 15th 1994 Watchtower page 20 it says,
'But Matthew 24:30 points forward to a further "sign" appearing in the future, that of "the Son of Man," and all nations will be compelled to take note.
In answer to your question I am unsure due to how i understand the changed view and can no longer support them in preaching.
