Silentlambs, The Letter, The World, and Justice.

by BeautifulGarbage 101 Replies latest jw friends

  • pandora
    pandora

    Great post Andee.
    Wish the thread hadn't gone so far off topic. It seems to have turned into the "Is there, or isn't there, a god" topic.

    Your post was quite well thought out and seemed very balanced. Hopefully the right persons will read it and move forward in a way that will help the cause and not hurt it.

    There was one post that mentioned emailing Bill. That might be a good idea. You have some experience, it seems, and he may be receptive to any help he can get. Although I know it can be hard to stick your neck out there with an idea that may not be recieved well.

    I will keep my fingers crossed that should you decide not to email, he will see it anyway and think seriously about what you had to say.

    -P(J)

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine

    Spanked by a Loon- the story of Six. Coming soon to a Christian lunatic bookstore near you.

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    Dearest Skully... may you still have peace!

    You simply did not....can not answer me.

    I could not answer what I had not been given, for you asked not regarding my actions or inactions, but that of another. Unfortunately, I can't answer for another, Skully (unlike you), without such One's permission and direction. I have that, now. So, please... let's continue:

    Meaning 'god' can not answer for what 'he' has sat by and watched occur to children

    Sat by and watched occur? How do you know this, Skully? How is it that you condemn me for supposedly knowing something (which I admit, I do not), and yet, YOU... KNOW... that the Holy One of Israel "sat by"? How do you KNOW this? Or are you of the same "feeble" mind that ASSUMES that because such heinous crimes... committed by wicked MAN... exist... that God does NOT answer when called? Or do you presume that He must also answer, too, even when NOT called... or BEFORE called?

    Perhaps you are of the mind that He should just wipe out "evil" before it starts. At what POINT, then, should such perpetrators be exterminated? Perhaps as little children? Maybe even before they leave the womb! Yes, that would CERTAINLY ensure no wickedness, wouldn't it? Because ALL evil people start out that way, don't they? And, yet, perhaps you are also of the mind that God is "wicked" because little children die! But... they are "innocent", aren't they? Is that not what you would say: why does "God" kill innocent children? At what point, then, Skully, should He act: before the crime? But then what would involve killing an innocent, wouldn't it? During the crime? But then now the harm has been done, hasn't it, and now it's too late? After the crime? Which one, the first one? But wouldn't you say, "Well, wait, he/she's sorry... it only happened the once!" Tell me, please, if you know, who are you to say such one was NOT "punished" by God?

    And tell me, Skully... please... indeed, tell God, if you will... at what point would YOU intervene? At what point do YOU feel justice would be served? Do you TRULY think pedophiles start as grown adults? Do you really think ALL of them just become such, without having such... or something just as traumatizing... have happened to them? What is the cutoff point, Skully? I have an idea: why not just kill them when it happens to THEM... so that we are assured the act won't be perpetuated? But, then, they are still "innocent" at that point, aren't they... and only 'victims'? For they haven't committed a crime themselves... yet. When, then, does GOD step in and stop the cycle? At what POINT, since you know...

    by his 'human followers'...

    Certainly you know better than that. Simply because one CLAIMS to follow God does not make it so. If I were to tout all over this Board that "Skully is my hero," and yet I shammed a bunch of folks out of their life savings, how then are you to blame? Oh, c'mon... at least USE some of that intelligence you and clear thinking you claim to possess.

    AS THEY SCREAMED OUT IN 'PRAYER'

    You're sure about that? All of them? Unfortunately, I beg to differ with you. It is a known fact that MOST victims agree to the deed. Why? Because they are not threatened... but "loved" (in a very sick way) into it. They are given gifts, affection, attention... tricked... whatever they need and are lacking... in order for the perpetrator to get his/her way. Very seldom is such one physically "harmed" into it... and in many instances several YEARS have gone by, with their innocent consent, before THEY decide, "Hey, wait! This is not right and I don't want to participate anymore." Get your "facts" straight, Skully.

    (which they are taught is what you 'do' when you NEED HIS HELP).

    Oh, yes, that's right. And we ALL do what we're TAUGHT we should do. Always! Ho-kay!

    What could be the answer is most likely the darkest secret of all to discover and uncover about this 'god' in the very near future.

    What... you don't KNOW?! Oh, my! (Whispering: "Could" and "most likely" denotes your uncertainty, Skull, as well as your ability to have grasped well the common synonyms used by the WTBTS. Methinks you might want to be just a tad more definitive... if you can.)

    What else are we, as the human race followers of 'God', in store for...under this 'god'?

    Depends on whether you are a "true" follower, or a false one, having a FORM of godly devotion... and proving FALSE to its power. But you this, Skully. Because you are intelligent... and clear thinking. The reason you have FORGOTTEN it, is because you are angry: at those who misled you... and those who commit heinous crimes against their fellow man while claiming to follow God. But you anger is displaced. Redirect it then, toward those who are DESERVING of it: those who misled you... and continue to mislead others... as well as those who harm others. And do not blame God for THEIR error... as He has given such ones "up" to their own course... because that is what THEY want. We, though, must wait for the "finale' of it, and if you are finding that hard to do, well, then you have to deal with yourself on that. For God told us how it works... by means of His Son. Whether you wish to hear... or refrain.

    "have you already made up in your mind... and heart... that nothing would convince you of His innocence?"
    What is 'he' innocent of?

    Crimes committed by others, earthling man, that you wish HIM to give an accounting for...

    "What's wrong is the truth bringing down your spiritual buzz? "

    I'm not sure where that came from. Don't think I said it and the quotations indicate to me that you didn't...

    As soon as we enter this world, we are 'spiritually raped'. Why did he put such cruelty into 'his devine plan'?? 'He' KNEW what 'he' was doing. It's all a 'plan', right? What a failure 'he' is.

    Okay, wait a minute! Now I am going to TRULY call on that intelligent and clear thinking you claim to have... cause I certainly don't see it here! Read this again and see if you can't answer your own question! Did He PLAN for Adam to sell his own offspring into what we have now? You know better than that, Skully. You intelligence tells you better than that. And you know what else? You intelligence tells you that there IS a God, for to be angry at something or someone who doesn't exist... to BLAME that one... is NOT intelligent. Is it? If He does not exist, who, then, are you TRULY angry with, Skully? And why have you not called THAT one into account?

    If that hurts someone, for me to be honest and free in my speech....THERE IS AN IGNORE FEATURE HERE. Use it.

    If by "someone" you mean me, please know that I am neither hurt... nor angry. It is YOU that is hurting and angry, but I must say truthfully that I do not know why. I know why you SAY... but we both know there is more to it. You are angry with God because someone ELSE hurt you. Yet, you CHOOSE... to blame God. And I would never ignore you, under these circumstances. Your anger, albeit misdirected, is understandable.

    Cause I am not here to appease the reader.

    Who among us is? I have not held back from speaking truth to you with the fear that you will not receive it.

    I will not deny my truths and opinions because others can't 'handle' it.

    And I must say to you, once again... as lovingly as I can... by your statement above, you are a hypocrite. For you wish to deny me MY truths... while forcing upon me your truths... and opinions. Just how does that work, Skully? Isn't that truly reminiscent of the "ways" of the WTBTS... do as WE say and not as WE do? Take our teachings and opinions, but don't bring us yours? C'mon, girl, I waiting to see some of that "intelligent and clear thinking." Still.

    CLICK ME 'OFF' NOW.

    Because you have asked it, I will do it. But not before wishing you again, the greatest of peace, for my peace toward you... remains.

    A slave of Christ,

    SJ

    Edited by - AGuest on 9 October 2002 12:51:56

  • Reborn2002
    Reborn2002

    AGuest says:

    Sat by and watched occur? How do you know this, Skully? How is it that you condemn me for supposedly knowing something (which I admit, I do not), and yet, YOU... KNOW... that the Holy One of Israel "sat by"? How do you KNOW this?

    Again, we look to verifiable evidence: The innocent child was sexually abused and raped and your God allowed it to happen. He did NOT intervene. This is a fact. This happens thousands of times a year and has happened for thousands of years. Quite a track record wouldn't you say?

    For you wish to deny me MY truths... while forcing upon me your truths... and opinions. Just how does that work, Skully? Isn't that truly reminiscent of the "ways" of the WTBTS... do as WE say and not as WE do?

    Funny, you don't seem to mind preaching your spiritual mumbo-jumbo bullshit as though you KNOW you hear voices in your head and you KNOW your God exists. Oh thats right, you have to call him specifically by name.

    Crimes committed by others, earthling man, that you wish HIM to give an accounting for...

    According to your faith it was God who created man in his image, and allegedly your God is omnipotent, so he sits by idly and allows children to be harmed in the most horrifying way imaginable? According to your faith it is He who is responsible for the creation of man. It is He who is responsible for allowing us to be imperfect in this time period so as to prove his own sovereignty. So yes, he would be accountable. Again, you Bible-thumpers praise God for the positive things in life and defer the blame when it is something he would be responsible for.

    This is all to prove some greater point?

    Bottom line : your God is supposed to be the perfect manifestation of love. How loving is it to be omnipotent and aware of all that occurs and to sit by and watch and allow it as children are abused?

    Even imperfect humans have more compassion and a desire for preventive maintenance than that.

    You still have not provided a reasonable answer. Every comment you make is based on your faith, and not fact. Stick to verifiable facts that can be touched, seen, felt, and proven.

    Then again I have to remind myself, these are comments coming from a woman who hears voices in her head.

    Alrighty then...

    Edited by - Reborn2002 on 9 October 2002 14:22:36

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    Dearest Reborn... may you have peace... and I would like to respond, if you will permit me. Thank you! You said:

    Your God allowed it to happen. He did NOT intervene. This is a fact.

    Actually, MY God did intervene... on my behalf. He has... and still does. Whenever I call on Him to do so. Why? Because I am in a COVENANT where He has obligated Himself to do so! I keep my part; He keeps his. But I cannot see where you... or any others who wrongly accuse Him... show Him OBLIGATED to intervene on behalf of everyone. Where do you get this understanding? Or is He, in your opinion, the God of everyone? If you are speaking of JWs, and I was one, then it was the 'god' of the JWs... "Jehovah," the GB and whomever else it is that they follow... who should have intervened, yes? For was it not they who promised "peace and security" to those who follow them?

    Yet, you, like many others, believe that in following the GB you were following God. That is not true, however. In following them, we were ALIENATED from God. And thus, He was not OBLIGATED to hear... or do anything. And yet, MANY times... in His mercy... He did... and does.

    This happens thousands of times a year and has happened for thousands of years. Quite a track record wouldn't you say?

    I have replied to this "thousands of years" below. But for now, may I ask: quite a track record for who? The perpetrators? No, of course not them! For god? Which one? "Jehovah"? JAH (who is my God)? What about Allah? Buddha? Confucious? The GB? The Pope? Satan? Are you blaming ALL of them? Or just the one whom YOU feel to be "guilty", mine?

    Funny, you don't seem to mind preaching your spiritual mumbo-jumbo bullshit as though you KNOW you hear voices in your head and you KNOW your God exists. Oh thats right, you have to call him specifically by name.

    And why should I mind? I know Him... so that I can stand loyal WITH Him. You, however, CLAIM to know Him (I mean, your accusations imply that you do...), while even acknowledging that you don't... so that you can yet stand in judgment against Him. Who, then, is the "funny" one?

    According to your faith it was God who created man in his image,

    Sigh! No, you are in error. First, by your very statement you show that you don't know ME... but I will overlook that. God created A man... one. In His image. Adam. All OTHER men, where "born"... NOT in the image of God... but of Adam. Can't you SEE that by what man DOES to man? His self-centeredness and SELFISHNESS, starting with Cain?

    and allegedly your God is omnipotent, so he sits by idly and allows children to be harmed in the most horrifying way imaginable?

    Omnipotent. Again, you don't know me... so how is it that you know my God? Again, you err. You have me... and my God... confused. With others... and their 'god'. Truly. I would think that good manners would require you to ASK what I believe... rather than assume. And I would want to tell you that not ALL children feel as you do. Trust me. Not all of them... for they are not TAUGHT to. In fact, many... MANY... are prepared FROM INFANCY... by their OWN PARENTS... for such a thing. May I suggest you get out... and travel the world... just a tad more? You might, then, have YOUR eyes 'opened'. Or... read a book.

    According to your faith it is He who is responsible for the creation of man.

    Of ONE man... and one woman. Yes. The others? No, what they "are" is the responsibility of that man and that woman. THEY... were warned... and CHOSE not to heed the warning. Again, you are blaming the WRONG person.

    It is He who is responsible for allowing us to be imperfect in this time period so as to prove his own sovereignty.

    First, it is not He; it is Adam. You were TOLD that: "just as through ONE MAN, death entered..." Second, YOU have failed to let go of a false teaching, for you are in SERIOUS error as to why He has allowed "this time period." You were told such lie by the WTBTS... whom you decry. Yet, you hang on to their false propaganda. Why is that?

    So yes, he would be accountable. Again, you Bible-thumpers praise God for the positive things in life and defer the blame when it is something he would be responsible for.

    First, and again, you do not know me, for I am not a "Bible-Thumper." I am only directed to use it for those who need to see something in writing... who walk by SIGHT... rather than by FAITH; those who yet to have the 'law' written on their HEARTS... and so need to see it written... on stone tablets... or in delible ink. I, on the other hand, listen solely to the voice of my Lord. I do not need a written law to lead me. If you knew me... you would know that.

    Second, you again lump me in with others. I praise God, true. But there are no "positive" things in THIS life... for this life is not the "real" life, but the "negative" of it. I praise Him... because He "alone, is worthy of praise." And I do it willingly. For even if I didn't, the rocks would cry out.

    Third, unlike you and certain others here, I absolutely place blame where it SHOULD be: on those TRULY "responsible", who harm their fellow man, including those who mislead... and NOT on God. If He were responsible, then I would certainly direct it at Him. But I know that He is NOT... for I know... HIM!

    You, though, like many others, feel IMPOTENT to do anything about the things you despise and are angry over! YOU are powerless and thus, cannot STOP these people! And so... rather than blame them... or yourselves... you blame God. Which is... easier... isn't it? Since HE has the power? Because then you can convince yourself that there was nothing you could do anyway... and be able to LIVE with that.

    But what YOU... and many others... overlook is... evil... is evil. And sin... is sin. You want to be forgiven and your errors overlooked: "Well, I'm not as bad as that one. God should kill that one, but let me and mine live." While at the VERY same time, you all decry Him for those He DID annihilate due to their wickedness. You don't want God to "damn" YOU... but you have NO problem damning Him. Hypocrite. Do you not know that NONE of us are "good", truly, that we ALL have some level of evil and wickedness in us? So, then, I ask you as I asked Skully: at what POINT should He step in? Once the crime has been committed? Or before? During? Or After?

    You, then... answer me. If you can.

    This is all to prove some greater point?

    I am not sure of the purpose of your question: some "greater" point? Oh! Ah, yes... the false WTBTS doctrine of proof of sovereignty. JAH does not have to PROVE that He is sovereign, Reborn. Even Satan and the demons acknowledge that.

    Bottom line : your God is supposed to be the perfect manifestation of love.

    He is. Which is how you KNOW that those who CLAIM to 'follow' Him, but by their FRUITS show they don't... are imposters! I mean, that's pretty easy to figure out, isn't it? And then, since they SHOW their fruits... rather than His... which manifestation shows that they do NOT 'follow' Him... how can you then blame Him?!

    (Where is all that INTELLIGENCE and CLEAR THINKING folks are running around here boasting about!?!)

    How loving is it to be omnipotent and aware of all that occurs and to sit by and watch and allow it as children are abused?

    Love warns, Reborn. It does not necessarily intervene. Ask ANY parent, brother, sister, child, etc. Why? Because intervention is not always WANTED! Israel, whose people MY God are... ASKED to be under domination by man, rather than God. He granted them what they wanted... what they ASKED for. THEY... rejected HIM! Now, as for the people of other 'gods'... I cannot answer. Truly.

    You appear to be propounding the position that MY God... is, apparently, in your opinion... the God of the world. But... if you knew ME... then you would KNOW that pursuant to Christ, I was TOLD that SATAN is the 'god' of this world! And he is so by MAN'S choice... not God's. So, I would tell you to look to the 'god' of this world to intervene at this time. For he is man's choice as a 'ruler'.

    Even imperfect humans have more compassion and a desire for preventive maintenance than that.

    You think?! Really!? Oh, honey! Obviously, you have not travelled the world much, for if you had, you would know that pedophilia is an ACCEPTABLE practice in close to 95% of the world! And in that 5% where it is NOT... I would venture to say that half of THEM... are no more compassionate or have a desire for "preventative" maintenance... than the other 95%. It is only considered heinous where YOU live because a FEW people WITH compassion... think it so. And in some cases helped bring about law. But even in the 5%, it has been less than 100 years where it was acceptable: men have been marrying/taking women between the ages of 10-13 (and even younger) for, what... milleniums?! And fathers/mothers have been selling/giving their daughters to such ones for what... milleniums?! And WHO wanted it that way? God? Or earthling man?

    You, like MANY others... still seem to think that all pedophilia is committed 'against consent'. Well, I am not sure I can agree with you: many parents DO consent, and many children are TAUGHT to consent and so realize nothing "wrong" about it until exposed to a different way of thinking. Now, you and I don't have to LIKE that... but it certainly is the TRUTH.

    (I'm still looking for that "intelligent and clear thinking" that Skully seems to think you have...)

    You still have not provided a reasonable answer. Every comment you make is based on your faith, and not fact. Stick to verifiable facts that can be touched, seen, felt, and proven.

    The facts are above. You think that because YOU are appalled... you, Skully, me... and a few like us... that the WORLD is appalled. You think... in error. MY God has 'allowed' man who is alienated from Him to 'have' whatever it is that HE (man) wants. Far be it from the Holy One of Israel to withhold from man what he (man) thinks is "good" - although JAH Himself has TOLD them what is "good". Yet, they do not have ears... to hear. So, yes, let's blame God. Cause it's easier.

    Then again I have to remind myself, these are comments coming from a woman who hears voices in her head.

    Well, at least I have a reasonable excuse. What, may I ask, is yours?

    Again, my peace remains.

    A slave of Christ,

    SJ

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine

    Love warns, Reborn. It does not necessarily intervene. Ask ANY parent, brother, sister, child, etc. Why? Because intervention is not always WANTED!

    Yeah, ask children. They do want intervention. Sometimes they scream helplessly for it to their agonizing end. You, heartless drama queen, are as worthless as your god. Small g.

  • Reborn2002
    Reborn2002

    Shelby-

    Your delusions are far worse than I originally thought.

    Allow me to break down your foolish beliefs piece by piece.

    I initially said:

    Your God allowed it to happen. He did NOT intervene. This is a fact.

    to which you replied:

    Actually, MY God did intervene... on my behalf. He has... and still does. Whenever I call on Him to do so. Why? Because I am in a COVENANT where He has obligated Himself to do so! I keep my part; He keeps his. But I cannot see where you... or any others who wrongly accuse Him... show Him OBLIGATED to intervene on behalf of everyone.

    So your God is biased enough to be obligated to intervene on your behalf yet he turns a deaf ear and commits no action to aid thousands of children being sexually abused every year? Just how important do you feel you are? Just how judgmental and biased is your god?

    From the statement you made, you consider yourself worthy of special consideration and more important than all children who are brutally assaulted every year.

    I say:

    This happens thousands of times a year and has happened for thousands of years. Quite a track record wouldn't you say?

    referring to an omnipotent, eternal god who sits by idly and allows it to happen. You know damn well whose track record I was referring to. Instead, you ramble this lame excuse:

    But for now, may I ask: quite a track record for who? The perpetrators? No, of course not them! For god? Which one? "Jehovah"? JAH (who is my God)? What about Allah? Buddha? Confucious? The GB? The Pope? Satan? Are you blaming ALL of them? Or just the one whom YOU feel to be "guilty", mine?

    Oh, I forgot, please forgive me. An innocent child is obligated to call out the right name while being raped.

    God created A man... one. In His image. Adam. All OTHER men, where "born"... NOT in the image of God... but of Adam.

    So your god is responsible for creating Adam in his image. Yet all offspring of Adam are NOT his responsibility? LOL!

    I said:

    your God is supposed to be the perfect manifestation of love.

    to which you replied:

    He is. Which is how you KNOW that those who CLAIM to 'follow' Him, but by their FRUITS show they don't... are imposters! I mean, that's pretty easy to figure out, isn't it? And then, since they SHOW their fruits... rather than His... which manifestation shows that they do NOT 'follow' Him... how can you then blame Him?!

    We were talking about innocent children here who are raped while your perfect god of love DOES NOTHING.

    Stick to the point, do not be evasive.

    But, probably the most disgusting thing you said was this.

    I said:

    How loving is it to be omnipotent and aware of all that occurs and to sit by and watch and allow it as children are abused?

    to which you replied:

    Love warns, Reborn. It does not necessarily intervene. Ask ANY parent, brother, sister, child, etc. Why? Because intervention is not always WANTED!

    So let me get this straight. Out of love your god chooses to warn the molestor or the child for being raped? Where were you intending to go with this?

    Or worse yet, you said:

    Love warns, Reborn. It does not necessarily intervene. Ask ANY parent, brother, sister, child, etc. Why? Because intervention is not always WANTED!

    and:

    You, like MANY others... still seem to think that all pedophilia is committed 'against consent'. Well, I am not sure I can agree with you: many parents DO consent, and many children are TAUGHT to consent and so realize nothing "wrong" about it until exposed to a different way of thinking. Now, you and I don't have to LIKE that... but it certainly is the TRUTH.

    are you somehow insinuating that innocent children want to be raped? You are one sick *.

    You think?! Really!? Oh, honey! Obviously, you have not travelled the world much, for if you had, you would know that pedophilia is an ACCEPTABLE practice in close to 95% of the world!

    What 95% of the world do you refer to? North America? The UK? Australia? Most of Africa? The Middle East? Why not be specific in your claim of 95%? Do not make claims of percentages without facts to support your statement.

    Do not presume to tell me what I have or have not done. Get off your high horse bitch. Your delusions of grandeur are nauseating.

    I'm done with you. Please do not respond to my post. Your sickening perspective had already made itself readily apparent.

    Seek professional help.

    BTW, Six, I am with you. lower case g.

    Edited by - Reborn2002 on 9 October 2002 18:34:55

    Edited by - Englishman on 10 October 2002 15:17:11

  • AGuest
    AGuest
    Shelby- Your delusions are far worse than I originally thought.

    And, of course, your opinion matters.

    Allow me to break down your foolish beliefs piece by piece.

    By all means, proceed...

    So your God is biased enough to be obligated to intervene on your behalf

    Yes. Where did you hear that He was NOT biased?

    yet he turns a deaf ear and commits no action to aid thousands of children being sexually abused every year?

    Children... and adults... suffer many ways, Reborn, and no, my Father does not intervene. Not outside of His 'house', for those not IN His 'house' (and many who were) do not WANT it. Let me ask you, and you tell ME, since you are so "intelligent":

    What if, in YOUR house, you do not feel your children need milk because YOU believe it is 'good' for them not to have it. And I come along and try to force YOU to give your children milk because I believe it IS 'good' for them. As long as there is no 'law'... who decides? Can the police just come in and arrest you because you didn't do what I believed you should?

    In THIS world, many... MANY people believe that sex with children is absolutely okay. Now, you and I don't believe it, but... can you and I now blame the 'police' for not acting, when there was no 'law'?

    May I ask you... what is the age limit under God's 'law', dear Reborn? Let me remind you: MEN... did not leave home until age 30. And parents were supposed to put unruly children to death by stoning. Now, I ask you... do YOU adhere to that law? No? What about homosexuality, bestiality, adultery... were not such things according to the 'law'... punishable by death? Do you wish God to intervene and EXACT His law in those regards? Or do you... like most of mankind... wish God to leave us to our own devices? Well, then, why not pedophilia? Why not let US work that one out, too, as we wish... nay DEMANDED... to work all the other "transgressions" out?

    Oh, I know... because THAT one hurts children! And war doesn't? Hunger doesn't? Alcoholism? Does that not cause harm to children? Yet, we still want to drink. Domestic abuse... physical abuse... etc., etc., etc. Yet, we... earthling man... still engage in all of it.

    "Funny"... we want God to stay out of our "business"... yet we scream BLOODY MURDER... when He does. Funny, indeed.

    If God intervened, dear Reborn, what "evil" would you have Him start with? What "sin"? And which one of YOURS would you beg Him to overlook? Or... are YOU without sin? Truly, dear one, when all wickedness goes, ALL wickedness... will go. ALL of it. Not just the stuff YOU consider "bad". For in God's eyes... bad... is simply bad. There is no 'ranking' with it.

    Just how important do you feel you are?

    Me?! To God, very. To my family, very. To you? Well... To others of earthling man? Well... Why do I feel I am important? Well, first, because those I am important TO have told me so. Just as I tell them. Second, because ALL life is important to God. Which is why He sent His SON... to SAVE it! However, not all life wishes to BE saved, Reborn. It may SAY it, but by its fruits, it shows what it really wants - not life, but death!

    Now if you're asking me how "important" I feel I am with regard to my "position" with God and among mankind, I tell you truly... I am nothing more than a servant, and thus inferior to all. Trust me: no one knows that more than I do, for it is due to such service that I continue subjecting myself to this. If I though MORE of myself, you and I would not be having this conversation, for I would have blown you off a LONG time ago. However, my Father's honor is at stake. And unlike many of earthling man who claim to love God... or their friends... but leave them in their hour of accusation... I have been taught... and have learned... what TRUE loyalty is. And that is: standing up for those you love... and KNOW... in SPITE and in the FACE of what the circumstances may seem to depict to others.

    If you KNEW your father was innocent, Reborn, and yet you were the only one... or one of the only ones willing to stand up and TESTIFY (give a WITNESS) on his behalf... I have no doubt that you would do it. No matter what others thought... or said... about you. Even if it were that you were crazy. Depending on your relationship with your father, how well you KNEW him... and how innocent you thought him to be, you, too, would do just as I am doing.

    Again, you are blaming... the wrong person. Can I myself prove that to you? No, I cannot. I can only speak in defense. You will either have to prove the one guilty, or that one will prove himself innocent. I am but a witness as to that One's character, which I know... very well... and you don't.

    Just how judgmental and biased is your god?

    Judgmental? Not at all. Not at ALL. Can't you TELL?! You want Him to judge... and yet, now you chagrin Him as being judgmental. Earthling man. Go figure.

    From the statement you made, you consider yourself worthy of special consideration and more important than all children who are brutally assaulted every year.

    No, no more special than my brothers and sisters. I mean, He is, after all my Father. I DO claim His as my God. Wouldn't YOUR father hear YOU? Does that make YOU more special than all other children in the world? Perhaps to YOUR father, but in general? Same principle. But you think He is the God of ALL. Is YOUR father the father of ALL?

    referring to an omnipotent, eternal god who sits by idly and allows it to happen. You know damn well whose track record I was referring to.

    Well, yeah. Obviously, you didn't get my point, that the you mayhaps was misattributing such "track record." That's why I ASKED... to get you to CONSIDER. Of course, you "intelligently" missed that, didn't 'cha?

    Oh, any my "excuse" was not an excuse, neither was it "lame." It was, in fact, a VERY intelligent question, which I noticed YOU did not answer.

    Oh, I forgot, please forgive me. An innocent child is obligated to call out the right name while being raped.

    Okay, so you've had privilege to peek into every corner and determine SOME name was being called out. Okay. AND... you now know for a fact WHICH name was called! What, don't Buddhist children get raped? Islamic? Who do they call out to, may I ask, if they call at all?

    Don't get me wrong... one does not have to call out audibly. One can call out in one's heart. And if JAH is called... JAH... hears. And answers. If He is NOT called, however, how it is that you think He would usurp the 'authority' of any other 'god'... when its children call for it rather than for Him? Truly, you do not KNOW Him.

    So your god is responsible for creating Adam in his image. Yet all offspring of Adam are NOT his responsibility? LOL!

    I'm sorry, but were YOU His responsibility? Or your mom and dad's? Nevermind. Methinks that one might be a bit difficult for you - quantum physics and all that.

    We were talking about innocent children here who are raped while your perfect god of love DOES NOTHING.

    What was MY God obligated to DO, dear Reborn? And where it is 'written'?

    Stick to the point, do not be evasive.

    I did. Quite.

    But, probably the most disgusting thing you said was this: "Love warns, Reborn. It does not necessarily intervene. Ask ANY parent, brother, sister, child, etc. Why? Because intervention is not always WANTED! "

    Yep. Trust me on this. And ask ANY parent...

    So let me get this straight. Out of love your god chooses to warn the molestor or the child for being raped? Where were you intending to go with this?

    His 'warning' was to love your neighbor... as you love yourself. Which means, 'do no harm.' Now, obviously, a rapist, although perhaps raped him/herself, cannot 'walk' under this warning. As regards the child, parents are TOLD how to be toward their children... loving. THAT would include LISTENING when your child tells you something has occurred. It would include BEING APPROACHABLE so that they know they CAN tell you. It would mean SPENDING ENOUGH TIME with them... rather than always shuffling them off somewhere... or ignoring their existence... so that they even become prey. It would mean watching them in the presence of others. It would mean children LISTENING to their parents and heeding warnings such as "don't do drugs", "don't talk to strangers," "don't let people touch you wrongly."

    Why do many children succumb to pedophilia, Reborn? The TRUTH? Because... they LACK love and AFFECTION from SOMEWHERE... and will TAKE IT... when and how and under WHATEVER circumstances they can GET it! THAT... is the truth!

    But no, we can't blame the rapists... we can't blame the parents... we can't blame the authorities who let such things continue... we can't blame those who see nothing immoral about it. THEY were all innocents victims... victims... of... of... of... CREATION! Yeah! If God had not CREATED them to begin with, NONE of this would have happened! God SHOULD have created perfect people (nevermind that He did, though!), and what... yes! started wiping out those who proved imperfect! But then that would mean He'd have to KILL someone! No! We can't have THAT, cause if God should kill ANYONE... that's wrong, too! But, no, wait! Maybe He should kill "bad" people, cause they don't deserve to live! But, who's "BAD"?! Are we not ALL 'bad', but some not as bad as other?! Okay, well maybe only SOME of us should be killed! But, which ONES of us are baddest?

    (I'm still waiting for that intelligence and clear thinking of yours to kick in...)

    Or worse yet, you said: "Love warns, Reborn. It does not necessarily intervene. Ask ANY parent, brother, sister, child, etc. Why? Because intervention is not always WANTED!" and: "You, like MANY others... still seem to think that all pedophilia is committed 'against consent'. Well, I am not sure I can agree with you: many parents DO consent, and many children are TAUGHT to consent and so realize nothing "wrong" about it until exposed to a different way of thinking. Now, you and I don't have to LIKE that... but it certainly is the TRUTH." Are you somehow insinuating that innocent children want to be raped?

    Not at all! But not all of them consider it to BE rape. In many parts of the world, it is acceptable. In other parts, that is one of the reasons many don't come forward: they are ashamed of their CONSENT... even though they are notto blame for it!

    You are one sick fuck.

    Oooh! Clear! I'm no so sure about "intelligent", though, and "thinking," well...

    What 95% of the world do you refer to? North America? The UK? Australia? Most of Africa? The Middle East? Why not be specific in your claim of 95%? Do not make claims of percentages without facts to support your statement.

    No, I don't have support anything. I gave you the statistics. Don't believe me? Look them up. Read a little. Get out of the house and travel a little. Ask the Board...

    Do not presume to tell me what I have or have not done.

    Well, you certainly didn't dispute my presumption. Tell me, where have you been? And what do you know of the sexual practices there? Yes, just as I thought...

    Get off your high horse bitch. Your delusions of grandeur are nauseating.

    {{{Shaking in my "boots" caused you used more "dirty" words...}}}

    I'm done with you.

    Somehow, I don't believe that to be true.

    Please do not respond to my post.

    You're kidding, right? You didn't WANT me to respond? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!

    Your sickening perspective had already made itself readily apparent. Seek professional help.

    Methinks it was something 'twas made you sick, as you obviously cannot perceive my perspective... or the truth. And my help comes from a professional, dear one... the "Mighty Counselor". Tell me, from where does YOUR come?

    BTW, Six, I am with you. lower case g.

    Well, then, there are at least two of you 'intelligent and clear thinking' people. That's a start.

    My peace, Reborn (and now your label intrigues me)... remains.

    A slave of Christ,

    SJ (who doesn't get all shaky when folks use "the B word" - I'm Black, remember? Been hearin' THAT one in all sorts of connotations for YEARS!)

  • AGuest
    AGuest
    For a man who calls other's "dickhead" and "dumbass" for simply not totally agreeing with them...

    Or a sick "f*ck" or "b*tch", or...

    Reborn, dear one, can you spell "h-y-p-o-c-r-i-t-e"?

    A slave of Christ,

    SJ

  • Reborn2002
    Reborn2002

    Ok Shelby, now you have succeeded in pissing me off.

    For one, I never made allegations against someone who was not present to defend themselves, nor did I ever make statements which had no verifiable evidence.

    If you honestly believe:

    Love warns, Reborn. It does not necessarily intervene. Ask ANY parent, brother, sister, child, etc. Why? Because intervention is not always WANTED!

    and:

    You, like MANY others... still seem to think that all pedophilia is committed 'against consent'. Well, I am not sure I can agree with you: many parents DO consent, and many children are TAUGHT to consent and so realize nothing "wrong" about it until exposed to a different way of thinking. Now, you and I don't have to LIKE that... but it certainly is the TRUTH.

    and are insinuating that innocent children want to be raped and nothing is done because of religious reasons, then I stand by the very terms I called you, because you have serious problems.

    Why not stick to the facts here, instead of attacking someone's character? Any comments I made were a result of direct quotes taken from someone else.

    Children... and adults... suffer many ways, Reborn, and no, my Father does not intervene. Not outside of His 'house', for those not IN His 'house' (and many who were) do not WANT it.

    Yeah, kids want to be raped.

    Don't get me wrong... one does not have to call out audibly. One can call out in one's heart. And if JAH is called... JAH... hears. And answers. If He is NOT called, however, how it is that you think He would usurp the 'authority' of any other 'god'... when its children call for it rather than for Him?

    Your grasping at straws here in a pathetic attempt to defend your stance. If you only knew how foolish you are making yourself sound. Your taking this to grammar and semantics due to various cultures and religions having a different name for God instead of addressing the issue at hand. Why an almighty being sits by idly and allows it to happen.

    BeelzeDub covered it well:

    So god did not answer a child being raped because he called out to the wrong god? If there is a god, and a child calls out for help, would he be so cruel? If so, your god is one sick bastard.

    but you do not wish to address that.

    You originally said:

    You think?! Really!? Oh, honey! Obviously, you have not travelled the world much, for if you had, you would know that pedophilia is an ACCEPTABLE practice in close to 95% of the world!

    to which I responded with:

    What 95% of the world do you refer to? North America? The UK? Australia? Most of Africa? The Middle East? Why not be specific in your claim of 95%? Do not make claims of percentages without facts to support your statement.

    to which you lamely replied with:

    No, I don't have support anything. I gave you the statistics. Don't believe me? Look them up. Read a little. Get out of the house and travel a little. Ask the Board...

    you made a comment with no supporting facts. The burden of proof requires that you provide hard evidence to substantiate your claim. You have failed to do so.

    You are indeed being evasive.

    I'm sorry, but were YOU His responsibility? Or your mom and dad's? Nevermind. Methinks that one might be a bit difficult for you - quantum physics and all that.

    Again, praising God for being responsible for the creation of Adam, making an excuse for him when dealing with all of Adam's offspring.

    Anyone that reads this post can see your a nut job.

    Let's be frank.

    You hear voices in your head.

    You believe God speaks to you.

    I do not believe ANY God exists.

    We will not find common ground.

    Until you provide verifiable evidence in the form of facts and not insinuations based on faith, do not reply to my post.

    Have a nice day.

    Edited by - Reborn2002 on 10 October 2002 4:8:40

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