Please stay away from the crack. Go grab a beer, turn on some Football, and RELAX. Bickering only helps the evil GB.
Please stay away from the crack. Go grab a beer, turn on some Football, and RELAX. Bickering only helps the evil GB.
BTW who in the hell told Simon he was not helping this cause? I have yet to figure that out. -- Hawk
Defending Simon by tossing insults or making unproved accusations (not saying they aren't true, just unproved) doesn't do Simon any favors. Especially when people, for their own reasons, don't WANT to give a forum owner any kind of break. -- queen (Dung) beetle
I think Simon has gotten more breaks than anyone else would, in face if his dispicable behaviour. He is fertilizing a cult of mediocrity on his own forum where he's systematically maligned or alienated near everybody who contributed substantially to the year-long struggle against the WTS. The damage he's done to the SilentLambs cause, for one, is irrepairable. All for his sudden about-face and decision to root out anything who might "stumble" his own dub family members or whoever he wants to please today. -- JanH
I don't see this as "bickering that only helps the evil GB". I see it as a responsible thing for a group of persons to be able to critique itself. Only dishonest people cover over a problem.
Good luck Hillary... *although I think you won't be the one that really needs it.
Thanks teejay ...
I can only hope that Bill and H_S get together and have a beer and settle this out calmly much like what C151d has indicated. Seems we are all getting way too worked up over this since the march.
This is way too sad.
I highly respect both of you guys and hope you two can work it out.
Just as many have, I have watched "this portion" of the whole JW / exJW story unfold over the last year. The Silent Lambs issue as well as several other outstanding ussues that have been exposed and discussed here are simply peaces of a very large puzzel that is slowly being assembled to eventually show the whole ugly picture in regard to the JW religion and the harm it has done.
Many have put countless hours into various projects that involved exposing the JW leaders for what and who they are. Some do it on soap boxes and others do it behind the scenes without a need or desire to have their participation known or applauded. The ones who can help in this behind the scene manner are just as important and have contributed just as much as those who hold the flag high as they lead a charge into a battle. Both kinds of people are needed in the efforts to expose the wrong that has been perpetrated on each and every one of us.
When specific issues are exposed and addressed, a few individuals take their personal time and effort to lead the attempt to get the issue to the forefront. At that time those individuals are looked at as some kind of hero for the joint cause of exjw issues and for a while are put up on a glass pedestal. As in any issue there are many different views coming from many different perspectives and on this, the largest of all exJW discussion boards, most of those issues are analyzed, criticized, researched, and most important they are discussed and the information gathered is passed on.
We all have different levels of interest and concern about each one of these issues. Silent Lambs is the issue of the hour and seems to have gained a strong following to help drive it to the front steps of the Watchtower organization. It has give us all a voice that has finally been heard by the long time disinterested media. As in most cases as this many related stories seem to branch out of the main issue to give the entire subject matter a look that it is much bigger and much worse than originally thought. This is the preputial force that drives an issue to the forefront as well as opens it up to higher levels of scrutiny.
This phenomenon is as normal and predictable as any issue that has not only peaked interest in the common person but also reached a position of offshoot stories that add to, and sometimes, tear down the main focus. We have reached that point in this particular issue. As far as I see it, it was not only expected but inevitable. Given the passion that we all have for exJW issues and the level of pain that the JW religion has brought into our lives nothing else could have happened. It's human nature, it's simply a part of our dysfunctional life style that we try so hard to escape from.
HS says Bill is acting like a JW elder. Well....no shit. That has been his way of life for many years. For now, it's all he knows. He has only been out of the religion for a short while and his level of passion has taken over his heart, mind, and soul. Give him time to grow and adjust and you will see a different Bill Bowen. For now, he is doing what he is doing in the only way he knows how to do it and I applaud his efforts. I do not agree with every thing he says and does but fortunately Bill does not need my permission nor does he need my total and absolute acceptance. Nor does he need it from each and every exJW who is aware of his efforts and cause.
This does not mean I or any one else needs to agree 100% with his motives, efforts, comments, or methods. He is going to make mistakes, some of them small, some of them big. Mistakes are what are made when someone is trying to do something as large in scope as Bill is doing especially since he has had no prior experience doing something of this scope and nature. He will be wrong at times and he will also be right, but the most important thing to keep in mind is he is doing something in the first place. If he expects all of us to agree with his efforts whether they are right or wrong is foolish on his part. Since Bill is not a professional lobbyist for exJW issues and has no prior experience leading a group of passionate and angry people in a cause it is ludicrous NOT to expect him to make mistakes or speak out harshly against those who comment negatively about him or his purpose. It is also logical to see him develop what some may see as some level of ego because of his work. It is a passionate adrenaline high and if he didn't get a little bit of a head because of it, it wouldn't be normal nor would the many accomplishments he spearheaded been done.
HS, I respect the hell out of you and I think you know that. I not only understand your thoughts and concerns I also agree with them to a point. I also agree with most of what Bill has done to a point. In both your and Bill's case those few disagreeable points don't add up to or equal the positive efforts that both of you have accomplished. You both have egos to a certain extent, if you didn't you both would have just sat back and watched the show. If both of you could recheck the big picture and put your few differences aside you two could be of great help to each other instead of slowly building this wall that is growing. If not, then just look at who benefits from this division. Once again the ones who you both see as your main advisari wets their finger and marks up another invisible point in the air. They then chalk it up to god being with them and the mean old talking snake with you.
Please,.....don't give them that satisfaction.
I don't see this as "bickering that helps the evil GB," either!
What I am hearing and seeing disturbs me greatly. I made this comment about on one of Shelby's threads the other day:
There are some times when I'm puzzled at his tactics, but one must admit that he has succeeded very well in publicizing the WT's faulty policy -- on an international scale no less!!! -- and in helping JW survivors of child molestation to get on the road to healing. He has succeeded far beyond what I would have thought possible, and I am grateful that he's not finished yet!
I am still grateful for that.
I recall defending Bill Bowen for peeling out of the KH parking lot last year, because I could understand his total frustration with the way he was being treated in response to what I considered his moral stand in the face of organized unrighteousness on the part of his local elders and the WTBTS.
Yet I still wished he hadnt done it.
I remember being amused at the sheer moxie displayed by standing up in his KH and insisting on his innocence of the charges of causing division. (I understood how empowering it is having attended the meeting when my disassociation was announced to publicly refuse to be cowered by the actions of a corrupt organization.) But I did think it a bit juvenile to disrupt the meeting, truth to tell.
I was dismayed when I learned that it was BILL who had tossed a lamb over the gate at 25 Columbia Heights (and chagrined when I learned it had actually hit someone). Trust me, there were many of us there who contemplated doing the same. What held us back? Well, number one, we recognized it as a childish gesture, and we wanted to be taken seriously. Number two, the police had already told us that leaving the lambs on the sidewalk would be considered littering, therefore, tossing them onto Watchtowers front porch might result in arrest and a fine. Did we really want to be arrested for civil disobedience? I actually voiced that question out loud. The answer was no. Number three, it was obvious that the police officers in attendance were empathetic to our cause. Therefore, they let us peacefully litter on the OTHER side of the street, when we hung our lambs (and our 11/01/02 WT covers! LOL) on the park fence. I feel they well understood the symbolic nature of what we had wanted to do with our lambs, and so let us be.
I further commented:
Someone mentioned that this is all a chess game. Well, knows his adversary very well (as do his advisors) and that is all important in game-winning strategy. Getting media attention is getting under the Society's skin, and they certainly deserve to suffer from the blighted, festering wound that pedophiles in their midst has caused in the congregations.
Bill does know his adversary very well. But so do many others who, as Hillary pointed out, have been fighting the good fight for a number of years in diverse ways and with success in their own right. Bill should not be so quick to dismiss their comments and criticisms, IMO. In my experience he does get prickly very easily, and he hasn't gotten used to no longer being a JW elder. He still has a residue of arrogance and more than a little of the "us vs. them" mentality -- a mentality which is all well and good when fighting the Watchtower on the child abuse issue, but NOT good when dealing with others who support the cause, but have differing opinions on the best way to be effective.
I thought this last letter to the Governing Body to be a bit ridiculous. It is obvious that they will not attend, would never consider attending, and that they will not do anything more than File 13 the letter because it comes from a disfellowshipped person. Brother Bowen did not get the courtesy of a reply to his other letters when he was still technically in AND an elder. Why would he expect anything more now?
I am convinced he does NOT expect anything more now. I am wondering if he has something else up his sleeve as the motivation behind the letter? It may or may not be a step to a further tactic that I would support.
I have kept these feelings to myself until now, because I support the cause of Silentlambs.org. I want to be a part of "helping victims become survivors" as one speaker at the March mentioned. I would love to see the WTBTS actually CHANGE its child protection(?) policy, but, barring that, I hope that by raising consciousness about this issue, there will be fewer future victims, recent victims will feel empowered to report the abuse to secular authorities, and other families will be prevented from being sucked into this destructive cult.
However, hearing of Bill's treatment of Hillary_Step, disheartens me completely. I am actually ashamed to wear the little mint green lamb pin that I had been proudly wearing since the March and which already provided me an opportunity to 'spread the word'.
Both the Candlelight Vigil and the Silentlambs March were wonderful bonding experiences for all the attendees. I cherish the friendships I made at both. I have a feeling that after this post I may be persona non grata at future events. Sad, but so be it. I can still write my political representatives and various newspaper editors and radio and TV producers. But I cannot stomach a "my way or the highway" attitude from Bill Bowen, or frankly, anybody or any organization at this point in my exit from The Cult.
outnfree (who chooses not to be silent anymore)
Edited by - outnfree on 8 October 2002 16:43:49
Im not saying that they shouldnt talk about things, just that they need to relax and have a beer! Talk about it with a nice relaxing Buzzzzzzzzzzz..............
Relax .... I am going to Email you shortly.
Hope it goes well, HS.
There are so many excellent persons who have left the WTBTS - Bill and Hilliary Step being just two of the many. Egos? lol....they were both elders and are still currently men.......who would have ever thought either man could have a ego *situation*?
Imho, both men are tremendously talented with great drive for acheivement - and thank you for that.
I hope they can continue to work for the mutual benefit of past, present, and future victims of the WTBTS.
Lol.....but Hilliary wins in the sarcastic humor arena.
Before anybody asks, yes I might be willing to do the same for Silentlambs if I was convinced of its structure as a broad charity, and if it had professional legal presentation, a Board and accountants and if Mr. Bowen were to pitch a tent in Iceland for the duration of the project. - hilliary step
Best wishes to both - and may the board find some peace and commonground.....once again as it always does.
Edited by - waiting on 8 October 2002 16:49:26