Guess who called Sunday morning

by Tammie 21 Replies latest jw friends

  • safe4kids

    Hey Marilyn,

    Yup, I agree with you. Your reference to the WTS's rules is an extremely valid one, and taking a stand against them is an excellent lesson in self-respect, not only for the parents but for the kids as well. My reference to the parental rules is that they have set limits BECAUSE of the WTS's rules; this is not only their right as parents but IMO their responsibility to protect their children from harmful influences, which, as you pointed out, exist b/c of the MIL's involvement in a destructive religion. I think we're on the same wavelength here, perhaps just using different words to convey our thoughts.


  • david_10

    Hi Marilyn-------------I appreciate you telling me how you feel. I left the Organization around 15 years ago, and without going into details, I despise the Society probably even more than you do. What's more, I have no use for religion at all, and I guess I can safely say that I am staunchly agnostic. But it occurs to me that I'm more of a "Christian" than most people who claim to be Christian are. There's something about that verse " As far as it depends on you, be peaceable with all men" that just gets me. Like you say, we're not dealing with normal people here, but it's not their fault; the R & F have been brainwashed into accepting this sick way of life and they honestly believe that they are doing the right thing. Now, I managed to figure things out and left the "truth", but I really feel sorry for those that are still trapped inside and I wish I could help them to get out. Unfortunately, I probably can't, but I still feel deep sorrow for them. Didn't Jesus feel pity for the crowds when they came to him, even being moved to tears on at least one occasion that comes to mind. I don't think that that is a bad way to feel about my former friends, even though they don't feel that way towards me. And I think that we should especially feel that way to those who are in our family, because, in this world, family is just about all we have. Marilyn, I feel very bad that you've been separated from your family for 20 years, and there's probably nothing that you could have ever done about it. I know the mentality real well. But I also know this : One of these days, sooner or later, you're going to be on your death bed. Or your mother will. Or brother. Or someone. And there's going to be a lot of regret and sorrow, not to mention guilt. All those lost years, and there's nothing you can do to get them back. Nothing except cry. I've seen it over and over. So that is why I gave Tammie the advice I did:

    I think that you should take the high ground and try to find some way that ya'll can get together and let your MIL see her grandkids.

    And it sounds like you told her pretty much the same thing, if I read your post right :

    She can visit the house and behave in a civil and mature fashion. I think that that would be great.

    And maybe, after all these years, you could reach deep inside yourself and make the effort to improve your family relations. It may not go anywhere, but when the inevitable time comes that I spoke of, at least your conscience will be clear and you'll know that you tried.

    I would like to relate an ancedote that took place just a few weeks ago, as related to me by my brother. By the way, I gave COC to my brother, who in turn gave it my parents, who have all now pretty much done the slow fade. (It looks like I did help someone, doesn't it?) Anyway, my brother has been close friends with an elder and his wife for many years and even now are on pretty good terms with them. Unbeknownst to my brother, the elder and his wife have a daugher, now in her 40's, who was disfellowshipped when she was 17. They have not seen her for nearly 20 years. While the daughter and her husband and 2 children were driving down I-40 on their way home to California back in August, they were driving through our town and the daughter decided to call her parents. They were invited over to the house and they spent a night together. For the first time, the elder and his wife saw their grandchildren, now ages 16 and 17. And the next day, they left. My brother says that Sister Elder cried like she would never stop. I don't think anybody on either side was saying : "See there, they asked for it." "They got what they deserved." "Ah, Revenge! Isn't it sweet? That'll show 'em we're serious" No---all I see is a terrible human tragedy. I hate seeing the same thing happen to you and countless others in this wretched excuse of a religion. And that's why I say : "As far as it depends on you, be peaceable...."


  • Francois

    I'm with Marilyin on this too.

    These relatives made their decisions and their beds, now they can damn well sleep in them.


  • Pathofthorns

    Hey tammie..

    I think you and your husband are good to hold your ground. Make the grandparents see exactly what THEY are giving up. Plus the fact that you allow them to see their grandchildren in your presence is entirely reasonable and especially so knowing that she is deliberately trying to take them to places you have forbidden.

    But these family fights over what amounts to nonsence are really sad. I hope your parents wake up and you all can put this behind you. Children deserve to have a healthy relationship with their grandparents and as someone said earlier in the thread, life is too short.


  • Yerusalyim


    Sorry for all the heart ache caused by this horrid organization. Pray for Mom in law.

  • Jesus Christ
    Jesus Christ
    It's truly pathetic. Is this what Jesus wanted of his followers?


    On the main subject of this thread, Tammie, you're being perfectly reasonable. Your MIL lied saying she would just take the boys to the park when she really wanted to take them to an assembly so sticking to that "You can only see the kids while we're around" is not only ok, its actually advisable. You wouldn't let someone take your kids to a strip club when they say that they're going to go to a Disney movie so don't let someone take your kids to an assembly either.

  • BluesBrother

    I am not qualified to coment on child rearing or family matters , but just an experience.

    My Mother in Law rejected the "Truth" as a young girl and went on to have three daughters . During school holidays they visited grandma and were taken to meetings and were witnessed to.

    Today all of them are diehard dubs ,only because of the exposure through Gandmother, My Mother in law never has taken it up.

    Family ties are strong, and a Grandparent is a poweful role model.

  • bluesapphire

    Blues-brother! What you said is exactly what I fear the most.

    Imagine: I am having my husband's baby. His mother is a die-hard witness. She brainwashes her only grandchild and he grows up to be a JW. He is taught that the way to get his parents back into the religion is if he shuns them. So my husband and I end up getting shunned by our child because we allowed MIL to influence him?????

    NO WAY!

    It's like with my sister. She was always very close to my three daughers (from a previous marriage). When we left, she told me she was going to shun me. But she would still try to talk to my girls. So I sent her an email and told her, "Don't expect to shun me and still be able to have access to my girls. You will not be invited to their graduations, weddings, etc. NOTHING as long as you shun their mother. My girls wholeheardedly agree.

    The Watchtower teaches them that by shunning they can force us to go back. So the natural conclusion can also be reversed. By her suffering the natural consequences for her decision, she may one day leave the cult. I also said to her, "Just remember on the day when they change their position due to new light and they say you can talk to members who have left the religion. It could be 5, 10, 20 years from now. But those years will be GONE FOREVER. Just think about that when you're missing out on the girls."

  • BudLight

    Its a very tough decision! My MIL tries every chance she gets to tell my daughter what a terrible decision her parents have made in quiting the meetings and the religion. She is not shunning any of us at present though. I dont know if that part is good or bad.

  • Marilyn

    Dear David_10, Are all Davids the same? I am married to someone like you and his name is David.

    I read your words with appreciation. I see where you are coming from. I think we are very much alike. I know the scripture you quoted well and others like it. I am sure we hate the WTS equally and doubt the existence of God equally. One of my favorite scriptures is "Love never fails". It hasn't failed in the case of me and my parents. For that I'm grateful.

    I might sound hard but I'm not like I sound. Not long ago I sent a cheque to one of my brothers for $1000 when I heard he was having a hard time even though I've not seen him for over 20 yrs. He called me to thank me. He doesn't associate with me still - but I didn't expect that he would. Even more recently I was going to sell an old family car, but my dad told me my brother could use it, so I gave it to him. I was away when he came to collect it. I don't think I could have stood the emotional strain of seeing him after all this time. He is an elder but now if I call him (about our elderly parents) he sounds happy to hear from me and we chat pleasantly about lots of things. But I don't call too often as I know his ability to accept me is limited.

    My husband David, always takes your approach to people and life. I used to think he let people walk all over him, but now I understand that he has incredible strength and wisdom in how he relates to people. You and him would like each other.

    In spite of all this, I don't think Tammie and her husband should let the kids go off with the MIL. I concede to your approach up to a point. The couple should write or send flowers and a note to the MIL, telling her they love her and that they will welcome her into the house and they will not discuss religion with her - but that they will not let her be with the children on her own, at this stage. Do you consider that a fair compromise? Anyway, this is all academic - the couple obviously have their own thoughts about what to do. I've really enjoyed hearing your point of view and bending a little in your direction. I know it is never wrong to be kind.

    Marilyn (ps - my brother's 20 yo daughter came to visit me when she was in town last year. she stayed a couple of hours and was delightful. I think my generousity to my brother opened her heart to wanting to meet me - it was only one afternoon, but I cherish the memory of it)

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