Amazon.com a Pedophile's Paradise ??? (page 6)

Trauma_Hound

Rem you still fail to realize there is nothing in the constitution that says that a reseller has to sell a certain item, period, I'm fighting for real free speach issues, not things like this, that are not free speach issues. Yes did write them an e-mail, it's my right, are you telling me I should shut up?

rem

Trauma,

This is about free speech. Of course I realize that there is nothing in the Constitution about free speech and corporations. This is bigger than the Constitution. Free speech does not end at the government.

I never told you to shut up. I believe you are basically telling the author of the book in question to shut up by trying to get Amazon to stop carrying the book. Amazon and Barnse & Noble are major distributors of all types of books. They are the largest and most accessible retailers of ideas. They are almost American Icons - symbols of our society to me. This is why I feel they should reflect our most cherished liberty... a liberty that is not available to much of the world - Freedom of Speech and Expression.

It is not so impressive to only fight for free speech when it is to your own advantage. It is much more noble to fight for the freedom of speech and expression of ideas that you do not hold dear.

I'm not saying that you are or are not doing this. I'm just making a general statement.

rem

PS: I don't mean to be pedantic, but it's been several posts... The word is Speech, not Speach. No biggie.

LB

Here is my reply from Amazon.com Sound familiar?

Thank you for writing to Amazon.com with your concern.

We'd like to assure you, Amazon.com does not endorse "Understanding
Loved Boys and Boylovers." Simply because we sell a book does not
mean we agree with the ideas it contains. If you will look at our site,
you will see that we have posted a review of the book by one of our
editors which is highly critical of the ideas expressed in
Mr. Riegel's book.

Please know that, contrary to rumors that have been circulating around
the Internet, this book is not a "how-to" manual for molesting
children. The author simply expresses his point of view about what he
feels are "misunderstood" relationships between men and boys.

We believe that people have the right to choose their own reading
material. Our goal is to support freedom of expression and to provide
customers with the broadest selection possible so they can find,
discover, and buy any title they might be seeking. That selection
includes some titles which most people, including employees of
Amazon.com, may find distasteful or otherwise objectionable. However,
Amazon.com believes it is censorship to make a book unavailable to our
customers because we believe its message to be repugnant.

While we do not censor items from our web site, we wanted to reassure
you that Amazon.com does not promote these kinds of titles.

We value all feedback from our customers, and thank you again for
taking the time to send us your comments about this issue.

patio34

Here's my 2 cents about Rem and FunkyDerek's replies. It's too bad it can't be discussed without the incendiary polemics you put in your posts. You seem to deliberately miss the point and ridicule and belittle any opposing viewpoints. I will ignore your provocations.

Now, if I go shopping at a conservative bookstore where I live, such as the huge Barnes and Noble, I won't be seeing a hardcore or illegal pedophile section. If I wanted that sort of thing I'd go to the adult bookstore downtown, where I imagine they sell that type.

If I go to the Macy's department store or J.C. Penny, or the grocery store, I won't be seeing a rack of sexual aids, will I? Even the "adult" magazines are not to be displayed openly.

If you can't see my point and insist on arguing about the non-applicable "free speech" issue, which is not the issue here, then okay. You don't have to agree with me, but you're being very insulting about making your side of the issue. You owe people respect, even if it is a discussion board.

Pat

rem

Patio,

I do have to say I am surprised. This is not they type of reply I would have expected from you. Not that that is bad... just interesting. I thought you, of all people, would understand the difference between illegal pedo porn and junk pseudo-science.

I personally see no comparison to shopping online at Amazon to in person at any grocery or department stores. Those types of stores are not repositories of ideas, primarily. They are places for goods. Not too much that needs protection of freedom of expression. Freedom of expression is not the charter of those stores... selling everyday goods is. It is my understanding that one of the charters of Amazon.com is the support of freedom of expression. A noble charter indeed.

Now, if you shop at your huge Barnes and Noble, you will probably not see the book in question openly available... but guess what? You will most probably be able to special order it. So it is just as 'available' there as it is at Amazon.com. Should you stop visiting your local conservative Barnes and Noble just because it's simply avaiable through their store? That's your choice.

Amazon doesn't have a brick and mortar store. Everything is just available. The book is not so much "out in the open" as it is just available. I didn't notice them doing any special advertizing of the book. You basically have to know it's there to look for it. You don't have to purchase the book, but don't act as if Amazon.com is a "pedophile's paradise" just because they choose to sell a book. They are no more supporting pedophiles as they are supporting any other idea that they sell. The one thing that they are supporting is free speech and freedom of expression... and I, for one, completely respect that.

As far as your accusing me of being disrespectful, I'll have to respectfully disagree with you. If you would like to point out specifics, then I'd be happy to discuss it.

rem

PS: I also noticed that the book in question was not immediately available... it was on back order... so they are not keeping loads of this book in stock. It seems to be more of a special order type item.

patio34

Hi Rem,

You make very valid points in rebuttal to my post. Actually, I knew the grocery store comparison was a stretch and the actual bookstore doesn't quite compare to the online one. However, Barnes and Noble online does not, apparently, order it for you. I'm not going to ask the local one to order it. When I did a search for that book on B&N site, they said something to the effect that it was not in their line nor available. No offer was made to order it.

In spite of your points, I still hold that this book is about something most citizens and their laws deem as abuse of innocent children and think it should not be offered. It seems to be a promotion of that criminal behavior that can cause great harm to minors.

Pat

funkyderek

Here's my 2 cents about Rem and FunkyDerek's replies. It's too bad it can't be discussed without the incendiary polemics you put in your posts. You seem to deliberately miss the point and ridicule and belittle any opposing viewpoints. I will ignore your provocations.

I don't think I missed the point at all. If I did it certainly wasn't deliberate. My point was that all bookstores stock some books which contain offensive ideas. I mentioned some that are well-known, widely available and are even required reading in many college courses. It would be absurd to ban the book in question without banning some or all of the ones I mentioned (and many more). I think Amazon is taking the correct course of action by not passing judgment on the quality of the books it sells. That's for the consumer to do.

Unfortunately, any mention of paedophilia seems to bring out angry poorly-informed mobs. The book may promote illegal activity but, from what I understand, argues that such activity should not be illegal. The argument may be flawed, and indeed offensive but attempting to silence it does nothing to disprove it.

Regarding the tone of my post, yes it was provocative, maybe even "incendiary". And yes, I was even ridiculing a viewpoint. Why? Because I find that viewpoint to be ridiculous. I attempted to demonstrate how ridiculous it was by following the argument to its conclusion and demonstrating the absurdity of that conclusion. I hoped to provoke a response other than a repitition of the claim that Amazon is promoting paedophilia. It doesn't seem to have worked.

patio34

Hi Funkyderek,

I understand your points. I disagree with your use of the word "ban" which can mean a legal prohibition. That is why I stated that you are not understanding the issue. I don't think anyone has suggested a legal "ban," but merely ethics in a business. Which IS the ethical stance Barnes and Noble seems to have taken in their website.

Pat

patio34

By the way, Rem and FunkyDerek, I rarely disagree with your ideas and enjoy them very much almost always.

Pat

Amazon.com a Pedophile's Paradise ???

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