by nakedmvistar 47 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
There is no beauty or love or warmth or humility in atheism.
How does lack of belief in a deity affect one's love of life or detract from the beauty that is the universe? How is it not humble to realize that we are just an insignificant speck in a vast, wondrous universe? Why do so many people believe a supernatural sky-daddy is necessary to enjoy the wonder of life? It is not true.
rem
My new found hate for organized religion has nothing to do with God.
It's not his fault peopel can't get it right.
rem,
I hear what you're saying, and I can't fault you if you are an atheist. After all, if I was God, and I created these things called people, but never spoke to them, never gave them irrefutable evidence of my existence, only leaving them to make guesses as to my existence and attributes, and yet at the same time expected them to have unwavering belief in me, and, beyond that, have very specific beliefs about me, that, if not believed correctly, will result in my punishing them with the greatest severity...It gets pretty strange when you go down this road.
Dan, of the wants-to-believe-but-wishes-God-would-give-me-a-little-more-to-go-on class
maybe God never expected us all to believe....maybe he just wanted at least some of us to believe...the ones that could. and for the rest of us broken souls we would all be ressurected,our sins forgiven because of our severely imperfect state. Then without that crappy spoiler of everthing, Satan, we would be able to grow in our faith....we would complete what Adam failed to do....Just a fanciful thought.
Does God still exist for you?
Nope.
NeonMadman,
Did you visit the ICR center? The Mt. St. Helens scenario has been debunked many times before.
rem:
I guess I just don't have the energy for such debates anymore... I wish I did because you sound like an interesting person to discuss these things with.
I know what you mean. Not the energy so much but the time, in my case - I'm taking two college courses this semester, and they're both tough ones. On top of that, evolution/creation is way down low on my priority list of things to spend my time discussing.
I do have to say that you are waaaay out of your league when you recommend www.icr.org as having ANY valid arguments. It's quite embarassing, actually.
Trust me, I wasn't really recommending it. I have lots of problems with what they say. I was using them more to point out that even the young-earth creationists do come up with theories to explain the data. Some things they say seem to make some sense, a lot does not. I'm not about to come to firm conclusions on this until I can consider it much more deeply - which may be a long way off, if ever. As I said, it's not a priority for me. Even if you could absolutely prove that the first 11 or so chapters of Genesis never happened, it wouldn't make a difference to my faith. That part of the Bible work just as well as allegory as they do if they were literally true; man's sinful state and separation from God still exist, and the need for a Savior is just as real - even if man evolved.
Let's just say that I hope you take some science courses right away because you seem to be teetering on the edge of being seduced by pseudoscientists who resort to blatant dishonesty to further their agenda.
Naah, it's just an area where I've elected to reserve judgment in favor of other priorities. I read voraciously, and my two main areas of reading are Christianity and science. I not only keep up with Christianity Today, Discipleship Journal and Moody Monthly, but I also regularly read Discover, Science News and the Skeptical Inquirer. See? I'm well-rounded!!
crownboy:
NeonMadman, Did you visit the ICR center? The Mt. St. Helens scenario has been debunked many times before. See: http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/mtsthelens.html
No, I didn't visit the ICR center, but, just out of curiosity, I attended a presentation by an ICR geologist last week, and that's where I heard the Mt. St. Helens thing. It was the first time I'd ever heard that particular argument, and I thought it was pretty interesting. Thanks for providing the contrary reference, though. I'm printing it out and will try to find time to read it tonight.
At the same presentation, I also purchased a book called Starlight and Time, which purports to explain why we can see the light of distant stars if the earth is only a few thousand years old. It was an interesting topic for me, since I think that is one of the biggest holes in the young-earth creationist position. Hope to get around to actually reading it soon (ah, but the pile of to-be-read books is so high...)
Does God still exist for you?
The God of organized religion does not exist for me anymore-that is about as much as I know. I do believe there is "something out there, something bigger than me", a larger purpose. I think a lot of people feel that and insist on putting face on it (ie organized religion). As a JW, everything was figured out for me ahead of time. As a child, the WT was in my lap and the Great Teacher book, it was all spelled out. Now, I guess I'm a "free-thinker" in the sense that I'm willing to consider any idea and any possibility. At this point I'm real comfortable saying I don't have it figured out yet....
CL
So, I'm curious: what sort of evidence would convince you of God's existence?
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providing a little crusty bread for about 4billion folks who go to bed hunger would be a great start-
JT, my man.
As usual, you laid it out. The way I figure it, if Jesus could feed 5,000 from some loaves and fishes, his pops must be able to do a lot more, eh?
Lisa
this statement is deeeeeeP!!!!!
"I would point out, however, that my faith would not be affected at all even if evolution were absolutely proven"
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now this is exactly what JW say after you show them 500 examples of wt errors, flip-flops, screwup , etc- yes i know the org is wrong and these things are not supported in the bible, but THIS IS STILL THE TRUTH
and when a jw says that after being shown facts and proof we just shake our heads
yet this poster has in effect said: "Even if you show me that my belief system is wrong i will still hold on to it"
now that is SAD
