my god has horns
Does God still exist for you?
by nakedmvistar 47 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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rem
Does God still exist for you?
No gods ever existed for anyone.
rem
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nakedmvistar
Thanks, REM....You seem to have it all figured out....ahem.
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pomegranate
Does God still exist for you?
More importantly, do I still exist for God.
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minimus
God does exist for me. I wonder if those that have been hurt by the Watchtower would still believe in God if they were not exposed to the Witnesses.
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rem
No problemo, nakedmvistar. Glad I could help!
rem
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NeonMadman
Hello Neon,
I wasn't spoiling for an argument I was just stating my opinion.Same here. I just thought that you took a very authoritative stance about what is ultimately a matter of faith. You also used a common logical fallacy to make your case, and, having just completed a college course in Logic, I wasn't about to let that slide.
And, no, I'm not about to dive into an evolution/creation debate with you. There are entire discussion boards and newsgroups that deal with those topics, and I generally avoid them like the plague for a couple of reasons. First, though I enjoy science, I don't find that particular realm of it to be fascinating personally. Second, you are right - I haven't studied the matter thoroughly enough to satisfy myself absolutely what is true. I'm skeptical about many of the claims of evolution, but equally so about the claims of young-earth creationists who assert that the universe is no more than 10,000 years old. I find it interesting, though, that even the young-earth creationists are able to develop theories to explain all the existing data.
I would point out, however, that my faith would not be affected at all even if evolution were absolutely proven. Genesis works every bit as well if taken as allegory, at least in my opinion.
Maybe I "poisoned the well" but you have done exactly the same to me. How do you know I would reject God if He spoke to me?
I don't. That's why I asked a question instead of making a blanket statement. I was just curious as to what it might take to convince you. From your initial statements, it appeared to me that nothing would.
He must speak to all of us in a clear distinct manner so their could be no question of His reality. Sane people all over the earth believe in the Sun because we all see it and not just the Governing Body or the Pope.
So it sounds as if the return of Christ as described in the Bible would be enough evidence for you?
You said that my assertion was a "just because I say so" argument and yet you base your whole belief system on such an assertion. You only have the Bible as any tangable basis for your belief in God and nothing else. You believe that the Bible is the word of God because it says it is.
Many books have been written to demonstrate the validity of the Bible historically, archaeologically, and, in many ways, even scientifically. I'm not going to delve into the arguments here, but my point is that there is strong enough evidence to convince many reasonable persons that the Bible is of divine origin. Additionally, Christians have the internal evidence of God working in their lives - but that is subjective, I'll grant you.
You have no evidence to present so you attack me as a person and present the same old tired circular reasoning
I'm not sure what I said that you regarded as a personal attack. It certainly wasn't my intention to do so. Sorry if I came off that way.
This is based on real evidence like fossils, DNA, sediment deposits,
Interesting that you mentioned sediment deposits. I just attended a presentation last week by a geologist who is a young-earth creationist, and he demonstrated how large new canyons were formed in a matter of minutes by rushing water from Spirit Lake when Mt. St. Helens exploded. These showed full deposits of sedimentary layers, very similar to those seen in canyons regarded as being much older. Again, I'm not defending the young-earth position, just pointing out that sometimes it's a question of who is interpreting the data.
I've studied your Bible but have you ever taken any university level science courses?
Only two semesters of Physical Science. The degree I'm about to complete is in Business Admin, and didn't have a very large science requirement. I'd love to take more in the future, if finances and circumstances allow.
If you have some evidence from the natural world which proves God exists and that the Bible is His word then please present it so we can believe together.
I don't have any, but these guys claim to: http://www.icr.org/
Not that I subscribe to everything they say, but you might find some of their arguments to be interesting.
Edited by - NeonMadman on 16 September 2002 21:10:32
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rem
NeonMadman,
Wow, I don't even know where to begin. I guess I just don't have the energy for such debates anymore... I wish I did because you sound like an interesting person to discuss these things with. I do have to say that you are waaaay out of your league when you recommend www.icr.org as having ANY valid arguments. It's quite embarassing, actually. I'm sure someone else around here has the time to go into it more fully. Let's just say that I hope you take some science courses right away because you seem to be teetering on the edge of being seduced by pseudoscientists who resort to blatant dishonesty to further their agenda. They are just as kooky as flat earthers... but don't take my word for it... research both sides and see for yourself. That's what I did (I, of course, used to believe in creation as well until I undertook a serious study of the subject).
Cheers,
rem
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DakotaRed
NO!
If he existed and really cared about mankind, how could he let so much hurt exist?
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DanTheMan
Whether it's a cultural thing, or whatever, I just can't quite let go of my notion that a greater being than ourselves exists. I don't agree with those who say that 'God is man's greatest invention'. (apologies to the late Eric Hoffer, a genius in many respects, but imho missed the mark with this one)
Atheism tempts me, but - it is just too dark. Man, without religion or spirituality, is just a pack of sophisticated baboons, beating each other up and competing for dominance. I live in an urban area, where the thugz rule. I see so many young men who seem to have no concept of spirituality or God, they are so imprisoned by ego and self-concern and materialism, they are truly pitiful.
There is no beauty or love or warmth or humility in atheism.
All this being said, I am very leery of organized religion, and very skeptical of "true-believer" types who think they've got it all figured out.
Religion is such a convenient vehicle for tyrants like David Koresh, Jim Jones, Joe Rutherfraud, Ted Jaracz, etc.