Should JESUS be worshipped or prayed to?

by LittleToe 50 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • plmkrzy

    Where ever you go...there you are

  • Kenneson

    Also, "But when he again brings his First-born into the inhabited earth, he says: "And let all God's angels worship him." Hebrews 1:8

  • plmkrzy

    I'm not a god and I'm certainly no angel, but when I pray...Yes I really do, depending on what i'm praying about does seem to effect who I pray too.

    Never thought about it in that context before but thinking about it right here and right now, I have to say, It depends.

    I pray to BOTH always have but I do not "worship" Jesus.

    This system works for me. My prayers are often answered if not always. I may not always like the answers but they are answered.


  • LittleToe

    So, both Hebrews and Revelation show him being worshiped and prayed to. There are other verses that show him being worhipped while on earth whereas Peter, and the angel in Revelation, refuse worship. Is the definition of the word "worship" an issue here?

    A verse that had personal impact on me was John 20:28; Thomas said to him: "My Lord and my God!" (NWT).

    I find myself praying to either, too, depending on the circumstance. What determines who you pray to? And on what authority do you do this?

  • pomegranate


    Edited by - pomegranate on 10 August 2002 9:0:9

  • pomegranate

    Here's what I believe and why:

    Yes, I believe the Bible is quite clear in that HONOR, GLORY and PRAISE be given to Jesus. ALL of which (Honor, Glory and Praise) are the very COMPONENTS which make up "WORSHIP." Which would surely mean I CAN and DO pray and talk to Jesus EQUALLY as Father.

    HONOR, GLORY and PRAISE to the Son - let's start with HONOR.

    The Bible says:

    John 5:23
    23 that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him.

    Some will say that worship and honor are two different things. That is not true. Honor is one part of worship, just as it can be seen that we HONOR Father in part of our worship to Him. Honor is surely part of our worship to Father, of which who will deny? So, showing Jesus this SAME HONOR, would be part of worship towards him.

    Also regarding honor and the text above, if I were to implicitly follow that text as PURE TRUTH, something interesting happens:

    If I HONOR FATHER as God and Creator, that means I have to HONOR the Son exactly the same way, as God and Creator.
    (By the way, I do not belive in the trinity or arianism, I believe in TWO. Duality. Bi-Theism. Or, for humors sake, the TWINITY. )

    Back to why I believe the way I do. OK, For EVERY RHYME or REASON I honor Father, I have to honor the Son. To me, that elevates the Son for worship and prayer. EQUAL HONOR is what Chist's own words at John 5:23 is showing. If Jesus is not "God" then why does he teach I GET EQUAL HONOR AS THE FATHER?


    Surely, we are to give GLORY to the Son. GLORY is another part of WORSHIP and IT IS given to the Son.

    2 Peter 3:18
    18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.

    There is also another point regarding GLORY and WHO gives the Son this glory.

    John 8:54
    My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me. glorify (glr

    1. To give glory, honor, or high praise to; exalt.
    2. To give glory to, especially through worship

    PLEASE NOTE, in the glorify definition - GLORY, HONOR and PRAISE as well as WORSHIP are tied in TOGETHER. Guess what Father does to the Son as Jesus own words CLEARLY ascribe? Father GLORIFIES the Son, Father HONORS the Son, Father gives HIGH PRAISE to the Son, Father HIGHLY EXALTS the Son. Do you know that all those things that Father is doing to Son constitutes PURE UNADULTERATED WORSHIP OF THE SON???

    Does the Father and Son get EQUAL GLORY?

    2 Peter 3:17-18
    18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.

    FATHER:Rev 1:6
    God and Father-to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.

    Father glorifies the Son. Son glorifies the Father. Father honors the Son. Son honors the Father. Father exalts the Son. Son exalts the Father. Father gives high praise to the Son. Son gives high praise to the Father. Father LOVES the Son. Son LOVES the Father. Father worships the Son. Son worships the Father. I believe this has been happening from eternity...


    Rev 5:12
    "Worthy is the Lamb, who was slain,
    to receive power and wealth and wisdom and strength
    and honor and glory and praise!"

    People the above emboldened/underlined is PURE WORSHIP. Does not the Father receive the SAME?

    Rev 5:13"To him (Father) who sits on the throne and to the Lamb (Son)
    be praise and honor and glory and power,
    for ever and ever!"
    People the above emboldened/underlined is PURE WORSHIP, FOR BOTH FATHER AND SON.

    So, Do I Worship and Pray to Jesus? Anybody want to give an educated guess?

    One more thing:

    Ps 2:12
    12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry
    and you be destroyed in your way,
    for his wrath can flare up in a moment.
    Blessed are all who take refuge in him.

    Kiss the Son? Sounds like worship to me.

    Edited by - pomegranate on 10 August 2002 9:6:10

  • Englishman

    Ah, but is worship the same thing as prayer?


  • pomegranate

    Dictionary anyone?

    worship (wr

      1. The reverent love and devotion accorded a deity, an idol, or a sacred object.
      2. The ceremonies, prayers, or other religious forms by which this love is expressed.
    1. Ardent devotion; adoration.
  • LittleToe

    Darn, I forgot about you Pom - I should have excluded Dualism, too Good post, though.

    Or, is prayer a form of worship? Personally, I think so.

  • somebody


    In Matthew 15:1,2 the Pharissees and scribes came to Jesus and asked, Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They dont wash their hands before they eat! (NIV)

    In verses 7-9, Jesus told the the Pharisees and scribes that their WORSHIP of him was in vain. Not because they shouldnt be worshipping him, but because they were honoring him with their lips and not their hearts (because their teachings were just rules of MEN, or traditions, that they expected people to follow as a rule.)

    My opinion is that Jesus didnt say that is was a sin to worship him, or wrong, or even that we shouldnt worship him. He just said that to honor him with our lips but not our hearts would make our worship of him in vain. In other words, our worship of him would mean nothing if we made teachings of MEN into DOCTRINE/LAW/PUNISHABLE OFFENCES.

    Notice the Watchtower Bible and Tract s ociety CHANGED the word worship, to the words do obeisance in Hebrews 1:6, from their 1961 edition of the NWT.

    NWT copyright 1961

    6 But when he again brings his First-born into the inhabited earth, he says: And let all Gods angels worship him.

    NWT copyright 1984

    *** Rbi8 Hebrews 1:6 ***
    6 But when he again brings his Firstborn into the inhabited earth, he says: And let all Gods angels do obeisance to him.

    But the s ociety did not change the word "worshiping" to the words "doing obeisance to" in Matthew 15:8,9 in either the older version of the NWT, or the newer version.


    Matthew 15:8,9

    Y OU hypocrites, Isaiah aptly prophesied about YOU , when he said, 8 This people honors me with their lips, yet their heart is far removed from me. 9 It is in vain that they keep worshiping me, because they teach commands of men as doctrines.

    Could that be because they knew better than to change words in Matthew because those were words that were spoken by Jesus, but not the words spoken by Jesus in Hebrews?



    Edited by - somebody on 10 August 2002 10:8:27

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