Watchtower Moves In For Kill On silentlambs (page 13)

Mulan

Great letter, Bill. It should make their butts pucker.

Farkel

Dutchie,

Is this YOU? If yes, was this picture taken sometime in the last Century? If yes, we need to talk!

Sorry about this, Bill. I'm fully aligned with your cause. In fact, I was working on it before you came forward. Can't pass up a good picture, though. I'm demonized after all, and it is all the fault of those WOMEN who are so, well, so....."Song of Solomon"-type women!

Nevermind.

Farkel

Edited by - Farkel on 20 July 2002 2:10:24

ISP

If the WTS cancelled the previous hearings at short notice/without notice, you would be entitled to your costs and those of your witnesses, IMO.

ISP

COMF

In accordance with the usual procedure, followed by Jehovah's Witnesses, when you meet with the judicial committee, no tape recordings will be allowed at the hearing, no attorneys may be present at the hearing, observers are not permitted

Knowing that Jehovah's Witnesses would never institute a procedure that wasn't bible-based (because they don't go beyond the things written), I'm going to need a scripture on that "no tapes, no attorneys" business.

Focus

Bill:
WELL DONE WITH YOUR ABSOLUTELY EXCELLENT REPLY!

Mr Bowen is a hero. Has someone ensured that BBC Panorama and Dateline know about what the Watchtower is now doing to him? I am unable to, albeit anonymously. Have you? YES, THAT MEANS YOU!

QUOTED EXTRACTS FROM THE WATCHTOWER OF NOVEMBER 15, 1973 pp703-4 QFR:

Do Paul's words at 1 Corinthians 6:1-7 mean that under no circumstances should a Christian take to court a case involving a fellow believer? -U.S.A. Here Paul was showing the Corinthian Christians the inconsistency of taking disputes between Christians before secular tribunals. The judges would be men who were not governed by the lofty principles of God's law and whose consciences were not trained through a study of his Word. As many of the judges at that time were corrupt and accepted bribes, Christians had little reason to believe that their judgment would be just. Paul referred to them as 'unrighteous men.' Were Christians to take their disputes before such men, they would be 'putting in as judges' men whom the congregation looked down upon as lacking integrity.

MESSAGE TO jW: Do not trust or involve LEGAL AUTHORITIES that are OUTSIDE THE CONGREGATION, as they lack integrity. That means Police, Courts, Enforcement Agencies, Social Services you understand we can't list them exhaustively.

problems arise in connection with business matters and the like. But differences of this nature ought to be settled within the congregation, for God's Word provides the needed guidelines and there are men in the congregation who are well grounded in the Bible.

MESSAGE TO jW: Settle disputes WITHIN THE CONGREGATION.

However, if a Christian refuses to correct a serious wrong when it is made clear to him by elders serving in judicial capacity in the congregation, such a one would be expelled. This is in line with Jesus' words: 'If he does not listen even to the congregation, let him be to you just as a man of the nations and as a tax collector.' (Matt. 18:17) Thus, for example, one who defrauded his Christian brother or who failed to provide materially for his wife and children would find himself outside the congregation if he did not repent. -1 Tim. 5:8. The injured party could thereafter decide whether legal action should be taken in an attempt to force the guilty one, now disfellowshiped, to rectify matters.

MESSAGE TO jW: Only AFTER the wrongdoer is EXCOMMUNICATED should legal action be considered against him (the next extract will explain why it is all to do with protecting the Watchtower's name!). It follows that if the wrongdoer is NOT EXCOMMUNICATED, there should be no legal action against him, and if he is excommunicated but then reinstated, perhaps the legal action should be dropped.

Of course, the injured party would want to take into consideration whether it would be worth the time and expense as well as whether the congregation could still come into disrepute by bringing to public attention the actions of one of its former members.

MESSAGE TO jW: SO EVEN AFTER THE GUILTY PERSON IS NO LONGER ONE OF JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES, THE INJURED PARTY SHOULD THINK TWICE ABOUT TAKING LEGAL ACTION just in case the public found out and the CONGREGATION CAME INTO DISREPUTE. Watch how the last bit is reiterated for stress again and again in the coming extracts.

If the wronged Christian conscientiously felt that God's name would not be reproached and legal action was definitely needed, he would not necessarily be acting contrary to the spirit of Paul's counsel if he were to take to court one who was no longer a part of the Christian congregation. Jehovah God has permitted secular authority to serve as his instrument in bringing lawbreakers to justice, and in this case the one wronged would be availing himself of legal help after exhausting the intracongregational means to have the wrong corrected. -Rom. 13:3,4."

MESSAGE TO jW: SO EVEN AFTER THE GUILTY PERSON IS NO LONGER ONE OF JEHOVAHS WITNESSES, THE INJURED PARTY MUST MAKE VERY, VERY, VERY SURE THAT THE GOOD NAME OF THE JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES WAS NOT GOING TO BE SULLIED BY ANY LEGAL ACTION for that is what not necessarily be breaking Pauls commandment means. CLEARLY, A VERY HARD TEST TO PASS, ESPECIALLY AS THE NOW EXCOMMUNICATED PERSON MIGHT DELIBERATELY BRING IN OR PUBLICIZE THE CONNECTION WITH THE JEHOVAHS WITNESSES SO AS TO DISCOURAGE THE LEGAL ACTION! CATCH-22.

There may even be times when Christian brothers conscientiously feel that they could go to court with fellow believers. This might be to obtain compensation from an insurance company. In some countries the law may specify that certain matters have to be handled in a court, such as wills that may have to be probated by courts. But this does not create adverse publicity or bring reproach upon the congregation. In handling such legal matters that would not affect the congregation adversely, Christians can be governed by what they consider to be best under the circumstances.

MESSAGE TO jW: This narrow exception merely serves to underline that the OVERRIDING CRITERION for deciding whether or not to take a matter before a secular authority is whether or not the legal action COULD HAVE ANY ADVERSE EFFECT ON THE REPUTATION OF THE JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES.

However, if any member of the Christian congregation, without regard for the effect of his action on the good name of the congregation, ignores the counsel from God's Word on this matter, such one would not be "free from accusation" as a Christian. He would not be one who has "a fine testimony from people on the outside" of the congregation. (Titus 1:6; 1 Tim. 3:7) He surely would not be an example for others to imitate, so this would affect the privileges that he might have in the congregation.

MESSAGE TO jW: WE WILL PUNISH YOU IF AS A RESULT OF YOUR LEGAL ACTION, HOWEVER JUSTIFIED IT MAY BE AND HOWEVER YOU HAVE BEEN WRONGED BY THE GUILTY PARTY, THE GOOD NAME OF JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES IS IN ANY WAY TARNISHED. You know anecdotally that sanctions, including social ones that are hard to define (there are degrees of shunning), usually go far beyond what is written and that even minor breaches of our diktats are severely punished. The unwritten laws always go farther.

SUMMARY OF OVERALL MESSAGE TO jW: IF IN ANY POSSIBLE WAY IT WILL HARM OUR WATCHTOWER'S REPUTATION, YOU MUST NOT TAKE LEGAL ACTION OR INVOLVE OUTSIDERS AGAINST SOMEONE WHO IS (AND EFFECTIVELY ALSO THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN) ONE OF JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES.

CODED MESSAGE TO jW: Of course we could not openly state that this Official Policy of, basically, only dealing with problems internally ALSO APPLIED TO CRIMINAL WRONGS - BUT WE NEVER SAID IT DID NOT APPPLY, EITHER! THINK WHY WE DID NOT, AND USE YOUR BIBLE-TRAINED CONSCIENCE. ANY OVERT STATEMENT OF THE UNIVERSALITY OF THE "NO OUTSIDERS!" RULE MIGHT BE TWISTED AND TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT AND USED AGAINST US BY APOSTATES, AND WE MIGHT EVEN BE ABLE TO BE SUED BY VICTIMS OR PROSECUTED BY THE STATE. WE MUST BE AS CAUTIOUS AS SERPENTS IN THIS WORLD RULED BY SATAN, you know!
YOU HAD BETTER UNDERSTAND BEYOND ANY DOUBT THAT THE LIKELY DAMAGE TO THE REPUTATION OF THE JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES IF **CRIMINAL** CHARGES WERE BROUGHT AGAINST ONE OF THE BROTHERS AS A RESULT OF YOUR COMPLAINT TO SECULAR AUTHORITIES, WOULD BE FAR, FAR, FAR GREATER THAN THE DAMAGE DONE BY PUBLICITY FROM ADVERSE A CIVIL ACTION.
ENOUGH HAS BEEN SAID.

WHAT IS TRULY IN THE MIND OF THE G.B. CLASS
FIRSTLY, we effectively PROHIBIT going to Caesar's Court to obtain redress for a civil wrong committed by a jW, as we place pre-conditions upon it that are virtually impossible to meet. Firstly, we say that the injured jW must wait until the offending jW is excommunicated. But this done, how could the injured jW possibly guarantee that the Watchtower's name will not be sullied in a civil action, when the other party (now no longer a jW, and arguably with a grudge against the Society for having been expelled) could deliberately drag the Watchtower's name into it or give the jW vs. jW aspect of it publicity afterwards (an intelligent course, if that would discourage the legal action)? Only by not involving outside authorities at all.
SECONDLY, we can rely on jW CHILDREN being unaware of the subtle distinction between going to Caesar's Court to obtain redress for a civil wrong committed by a jW, and going to Caesar's Police to obtain redress for a criminal wrong committed by a jW. Our jW children are much more isolated and the flow of information to them is controlled as far as is possible.
THIRDLY and consequently, jW CHILDREN, THE FEW ODD EXCEPTIONS EXCLUDED, WILL NOT WHISTLEBLOW TO THE POLICE OR TO SOCIAL SERVICES. SO WE HAVE ACHIEVED THE DOUBLE OBJECTIVE WE WILL AVOID BOTH THE BAD PUBLICITY (which would reduce Cult Income) THAT A FLOOD OF THESE CASES WOULD BRING, AND WE WILL AVOID THE LEGAL ACTIONS AGAINST OURSELVES (which would reduce Cult Wealth) THAT AN EXPLICIT POLICY PROHIBITING jWs FROM INVOLVING THE POLICE WOULD BRING.
FOURTHLY, ANY CASES THAT SLIP THROUGH, OUR DAMAGE-LIMITATION DESIGN AND ON-THE-GROUND TEAM WILL ENSURE RESULTS IN THE MUD STICKING ONLY TO LOCAL ELDERS, AND NEVER TO BROOKLYN OR TO POLICY.
FIFTHLY, ONCE HIS LOCAL CONGREGATION (WE HAD NO HAND IN IT AT ALL, OF COURSE) DF THAT TRAITOR F****** B****** BOWEN (OF COURSE, NOT FOR WHISTLEBLOWING, WE HAVE ALL THIS WORKED OUT) WE WILL CALL HIM AN APOSTATE, BRING THE FULL WEIGHT OF SHUNNING AGAINST HIM, SILENCE THE EARS OF ALL jWs TO HIM, AND PROVE HIS BIAS TO THE PRESS: "HE HOLDS A GRUDGE AGAINST US FOR HIS FELLOW jWs EXPELLING HIM FOR HIS GRAVE MISCONDUCT IN OTHER AREAS, FOR WHICH ACTION HE IS TRYING TO DISCREDIT US." THE WRITING STAFF AND MEDIA OFFICE ALREADY HAVE THE ARTICLES AND PRESS RELEASES COMPLETED. THAT BIT ABOUT "SELF-AGGRANDIZING AND SEEKING PERSONAL GLORIFICATION" HAS TO BE CHANGED, THOUGH, AS THE R&F WON'T UNDERSTAND IT - "SHAMEFUL SELF-PUBLICIST" IS SIMPLER AND IT TOO HAS THE RIGHT IRONIC TINGE (i.e. IT APPLIES TO OURSELVES A MILLION TIMES MORE APTLY!)
SO ARE WE CLEVER, OR ARE WE CLEVER? ALL WE HAVE YET TO DO IS FIGURE OUT HOW TO SHUT THIS GOD-DAMNED INTERNET THING DOWN, NOW.
OH, DID THAT LOWLY WOMAN SAY THESE SILENT LAMBS CLAIM TO BE SUFFERING? NOT OUR PROBLEM - SATAN IS IN CHARGE OF THIS WORLD. AND WE DO NOT HAVE TWO WITNESSES TO THE SAME INCIDENT, SO IT NEVER HAPPENED AS FAR AS WE ARE CONCERNED. WE DO NOT GO BEYOND THE THINGS THAT ARE WRITTEN. WELL LEAVE IT TO JEHOVAH. WICKEDNESS IS TIED UP IN THE HEART OF A CHILD, SO THEY PROBABLY DESERVED IT OR ASKED FOR IT OR ARE MAKING IT ALL UP.

WHAT IS IN THE MIND OF FOCUS
The blood of the tens of thousands of Silent Lambs lies at the ALTAR OF THE WATCHTOWER and of the filthy F IEND CLASS and G.B. CLASS and the far wider PEDOPHILE-ENABLING CLASS who continue to serve it. PEDOPHILES ARE TO THE WATCHTOWER AS FLIES ARE TO HONEY. As I said before.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=3035&site=3
http://www.silentlambs.org
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/audiovideo/programmes/panorama/newsid_2114000/2114320.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/cta/progs/panorama/latest.ram
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/audiovideo/programmes/panorama/live_forums/newsid_2124000/2124808.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/cta/progs/02/forum/panorama/jehovah15jul.ram

--
Focus
(Armageddon Class)

PS: On matters relating that other hero, Mr Salter, who humbled the Watchtower seventy years ago - I still await the evidence from "Kismet" that "Kismet" claims discredits Salter. My sources are available from any competent web search.
PPS: For some reason, this BB interface is losing the slanted apostrophes used in Microsoft Word (nothing appears in their place within the text, as if they had been filtered out). I had to manually re-insert "straight" apostrophes. To replicate the bug, make up some text in Word with such slanted apostrophes and then cut & paste it into the "Send Message" area of the board, and send it. I do mean apostrophes, and not quotation marks.

Edited by - Focus on 20 July 2002 9:14:31

teejay

>> Hey TJ, good quote! What publication are they from?

Insight on the Scriptures. The exact reference is at the beginning of each quote.

SYN

Farkel: IIRC, Dutchie is married...

Klaus Vollmer

Bill, your judges have the decision already in their wallet:

"hang him"

I guess that their instructions from the ivory tower are very clear:

"make him silent as JW"

there is no difference between the witchfires and the DF of JWs.

but they will loose the affairs finally as they have lost already the soil under the feet.

Every fart does not stink, but every decision that is against the divine purpose.

their 2 witnesses are more important than to act.

and if you ask a perfect killer - he never has any witness, why then a child-molester?

my counsel: let your cellphone work .....that did in Germany a JW in his hearing hehehe, I guess they wont use any detector when you enter.

Dutchie

Hi Farkel, are we hijacking this thread? Anyway, that is indeed me. My daughter took the picture last month.

Syn, my husband passed away last year and I am, yes, a widow. Farkel, you may email me anytime.

Focus

Sympathies about your tragic loss...

Do you mind someone, perhaps less famous than Farkel, emailing you too?

--
Focus
(Enquiry Class)

Edited by - Focus on 20 July 2002 17:52:55

Watchtower Moves In For Kill On silentlambs

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