by wholewheat 109 Replies latest jw friends
I agree with Ven, I dont think you give a rats ass about anyones feelings or what they prefer to be called.
Dazed that is a good point. Apostacy is turning away from God.
Wheat,
Under that definition, You my friend are an "Apostate" because you serve a organization of sinful, lyng MEN, Not GOD and that is reality.
What I don't like about this type of word is that like 'heretic' it is often used to label people. Labelling people with an emotive word is not a fair way of making your point. Labelling XJWs with the word 'apostate' also implies according to the way JWs see it that the person has turned his back on the true faith, something that many here would hotly dispute! Its probably better to say XJW.
However, you can call me
LIONPAWS. That stands for:
Liberated
Individual
Out
Now
Protesting
Against the
Watchtower
Society
Sure, you can call me 'apostate', so long as I can call you 'cult groupie'.
Name calling is childish but it looks as if some of you here love to be called 'apostate' while some of you resent it. Why resent it? We have choices in life and for those of you that dedicated your life to Jehovah, you knew that if you were to turn against Him and His teachings you would be an 'apostate'. But if it is truely offensive to even some, I will try to refrain from using this term and instead refer to apostates as 'exJWs'.
Wholewheat:
If being "apostate" in your mind means to turn away from the organization, doesn't that mean turning away from the teachings of the organization?
There are many here who have not turned away from God- only the Watchtower Society as an organization There are also some who still believe in some of the teachings which are unique to the Watchtower Society yet simply cannot believe or live by other parts of their doctrine. Since being a Jehovah's Witness and being part of the Watchtower Society is not an ala carte religion, these folks have either had to make the decision to leave the organization themselves or that decision was made for them by those seated in judgement. You either accept all of the doctrine or you are not a JW. You cannot openly say - "Hey, I think this part is good and I will follow it but this part- sorry- can't do it"; without being tossed out on your ear in a whirlwind of emotional hell.
To you, these people are apostates- so be it, by the definition you have found that being called that doesn't have the negative affect on people you might wish.
But I have to ask you this- If people who still believe in some of the doctrine of JW but cannot follow other teachings or rules of JW are apostate and the only way to openly remain a JW is to adhere to all of the teachings and not pick and choose which ones to live by- then aren't you an apostate too?
I understand that one of the strongest teachings (rules) of JW is not to associate with apostates or read apostate writings or literature. Am I correct? You not only do that but you actively participate and interact in this clearly labeled (by you) apostate realm. Doesn't that mean that you are turning against the teachings of your religion? If you aren't adhering to and abiding by it - you are turning away from it. The fact that you are still in the organization (in whatever standing) only means that you are getting away with it. One can, by definition of the word, be apostate while still in the organization by turning away from it by breaking the rules or going against the doctrine taught.
Maybe there are different levels of apostacy. Pre-apostate - when you are still in the organization- haven't left yet, but don't believe in some of the teachings. Sub-apostate- when you are in the organization, profess to believe it all but don't follow some of the rules but don't get caught.
Semantics? Perhaps. Sounds more like the pot calling the kettle black.
Merely my opinion. Cuz I'm free to have one.
Peace~
XW
wholewheat,
Once again, you show how clueless you really are:
: We have choices in life and for those of you that dedicated your life to Jehovah, you knew that if you were to turn against Him and His teachings you would be an 'apostate'.
You equate turning against Jehovah with turning against the Watchtower Printing Corporation. How do you think you know that that is the same thing? I'll tell you how: because the Watchtower Printing Corporation tells you that turning away from them IS turning away from Jehovah himself. This despite the fact that they are so clueless about what is true they've changed their major doctrines dozens and dozens of times, even reversing and the re-reversing them over the years.
Doesn't that sort of supreme arrogance coming from the leaders of a little two-bit bullshit religion that claims most Bible prophecy is fulfilled by THEM bother you in the least?
Farkel
Doesn't that sort of supreme arrogance coming from the leaders of a little two-bit bullshit religion that claims most Bible prophecy is fulfilled by THEM bother you in the least?
Farkel, that's a good question.
However we know from being there that the average JW can't distinguish between God and the WTS.
To them, they are one and the same.
neyank
Wholewheat,
You still haven't answered my question.
Are you an apostate?
Have you left another belief system to become a JW?
Once you understand what the word apostate really means, maybe you'll
not use it in an insulting way.
Picture this if you will.
A person has been going to Mcdonalds Resturaunt for a long time.
They love the food from there.
All of a sudden they try Burger King.
They start liking that food better.
Now they no longer go to Mcdonalds but
instead they stick with Burger King.
Now tell me.
Is this person an apostate?
neyank
Farkel,
You cannot judge people's hearts and not all of Jehovah's witnesses view the organisation as Jehovah Himself. You asked me an interesting question regarding the Society applying Bible prophecies to the organisation, does this bother me? Yes, as a matter of fact it does. But not to the point that it will cause me to turn on Jehovah God and my brothers and sisters. I feel that there are some definite problems with the 'Revelation' book, I feel the Society needs to stay away from interpreting allegorical writings in the scriptures as it seems to come back as an embarrasment to haunt them latter, as the exJW web pages demonstrate. People have been asking me about 607BCE on this board. I didn't dedicate my life to Jehovah because of 607BCE and I was not the one who came up this date, so I am not the resposible party if it turns out that 1914 is incorrect, which is possible. I have the privledge of serving in a wonderful congregation of loving brothers and sisters that truely love their fellow man, and CHOOSE to live by Jehovah's standards, and do not worship the organisation. The reason I am here is that the dateline show has caused some major concern, as many have been stumbled been this broadcast. I would like to discuss this a little latter with the exJWs on this board, but at this time I would like to make this point. Remember the brothers and sisters that have been in prisons for 30, 40 years in the past. They remained faithful to Jehovah, praying to Him daily, and yet never recieved any of the Society's publications. Did they worship the organisation? I think not!
Wholewheat, you are more liberal than most Witnesses, and that is a good thing, in my opinion. I am curious about one thing. Are you free to discuss your reservations about some of the teaching with other Witnesses? If you are attending a congregation that is as liberal as you, then perhaps this is the model congregation of the future, which would lead to the mainstreaming of the religion.
