Steve Pinker ... evidence on the surprising decline in violence

by digderidoo 52 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  SingleCell

  Decrease in violence, right? Isn't that the subject of the thread?

  Technology giving us a plethora of free time, ability to live longer, eat better, and on and on. The majority in the Western world are 'free from care' to a degree that was IMPOSSIBLE 150 years ago!

  Couple that with:

  The mass rejection of Christianity happening in the world.

  (the falling away, breaking the chains, etc - the scriptures are replete with this conception - only a small group will stay Christian)

  And we see the prophecy unfolding in front of our eyes.

  Next up: resource wars and 'rumors' of resource wars, likely in this century.
• 

  cofty

  I asked how our world could be called "free from care".

  Pinker's book - which you admit you haven't read - does not suggest we are living in any sort of utopian world. He shows with ample evidence that there is a positive trend in relation to violence.

  You are totally taking it out of context. If you want to show that our world is "free from care" you have all your work still ahead of you.
• 

  SingleCell

  Are we more 'free from care' today than we were 200 years ago, for the majority in the Western world?

  [the prophecy isn't 'free from ALL care', but a period generally described as 'freedom from care']

  Do I have to hunt my food? Find water? Dress my own wounds?

  My job involves sitting and looking at a screen. What would I have been doing 200 years ago?

  We have 10s of hours of entertainment time every week; I can call and order food that is delivered hot to my door.

  You aren't looking close enough cofty :)

  On top of that, isn't it strange that Jesus and the old prophets predicted that there was a coming 'great falling away' from the faith?

  Why would he / they say that?

  Note: since the prophecy is centered in the Western world, I'm not analyzing the 'Eastern' system within this context.
• 

  cofty

  Singlecell - If you want to debate Pinker's book and how it relates to bible prophecy at least read the book first.

  There is not a single prophecy in the entire bible that can be claimed to have come true by any intellectually honest person.

  It is a hotch-potch of ramblings recounting the ignorance of Iron Age goat herders.
• 

  SingleCell

  Canned atheist response aside, that isn't true!

  • Assyria and Babylon overthrew Israel.
  • Jesus came out of the lineage of David.
  • Alexander died early and passed on his throne to the four generals Lysimachus, Seleucus, Cassander and Ptolemy.
  • Rome dominated the known world.
  • Jeruslam was rebuilt.
  • The foretold messiah became a massive religion (Christinity).
  • There is a falling away from christianity happening
  • Paul became the apostle to the nations
  • The foretold messiah suffered as a criminal
  • Israel took over the land God promised them 400 years in advance
  • Bethlehem was the birthplace of the messiah, foretold 700 years in advance
  • Cyrus freed the Jews and gave them Jerusalem back

  I can go on, if you would like.
• 

  breakfast of champions

  TGFC. . . . .. .

  . .. . I have zero patience for such nonsense!
• 

  cofty

  It isn't a "canned atheist response". I know the bible intimately. I was a christian for 9 years after I left the cult.

  There is not a single example in your list of an actual prophecy written before the fact. Not one. All of them have been discussed in the forum in recent years.

  The bible is historically and scientifically wrong. It was written in a pre-scientific world of superstitous people. It promotes the sort of ethics that would shame a Taliban warlord.

  You are going through a phase of dearly wanting the bible to still be true. You may get over it if you study real history and science with an open mind.

  The bible is not worthy of your attention let alone your respect.
• 

  AndersonsInfo

  Coincidentally, I just posted the following article on my website which I wrote two days ago - watchtowerdocuments.org. See the evidence for yourself that the behavior of our youths is changing for the better:

  As far back as the first century BC, youths were criticized by the Greeks for their bad manners, contempt for authority, tyrannizing their teachers, love of luxury, etc., but Grecian writers didn’t attribute that behavior as a sign of the end of the Grecian world.

  It appears that throughout history, adults were not happy with the general disobedience of young people and it was not any different in the 19th-century and 20th-century. If asked, most adults, during these centuries and before, thought that youths’ behavior was worse than ever.

  However, Jehovah’s Witnesses have taken bad behavior on the part of the young to mean fulfillment of Bible prophecy. Since the beginning of their religion in the late 19 th -century, they have contended that disobedience of young people is on the increase and is one of the marks of the “last days.” Here are some examples of this: Read More: http://watchtowerdocuments.org/youths-are-surprising-us/
• 

  SingleCell

  Let's look at the first item:

  Babylon overthrew Israel (more accurately, Judah)

  Jeremiah is dated to the period of Josiah, 30 years before Babylon's campaign into Judah.

  11 This whole country will become a desolate wasteland, and these nations will serve the king of Babylon seventy years.

  12 "But when the seventy years are fulfilled, I will punish the king of Babylon and his nation, the land of the Babylonians, for their guilt," declares the LORD, "and will make it desolate forever.

  Jeremiah 25:11-12, written ~30 years beforehand.

  Afterward, Cyrus 'punished' the king of Babylon, and Babylon has been uninhabited since.

  That is real history.

  Jeremiah also proclaimed that the "messiah" would come from David's family:

  "The days are coming," declares the LORD,

  "when I will raise up to David a righteous Branch,

  a King who will reign wisely

  and do what is just and right in the land.

  Jeremiah 23:5

  Can you deconstruct this to invalidate it? Sure.

  I'm not sure what you mean about the morality of the scriptures and a Taliban warlord however :) Obviously, you understand the historical events of the time regarding Joshua and Israel, juxtaposed to the teaching of Jesus?

  It is said that "Jesus revealed who God is" to man; so extrapolating a moral conception from Joshua (for example) is repudiated by the writers of the NT.
• 

  digderidoo

  His book "The Better Angels of our Nature" is a must-read for all exJWs.

  I have ordered the book today, less than £10 on Amazon