Many Member Just Want to Believe (page 2)

Divergent

I wanted to believe, until the day came where I couldn't convince myself to believe anymore!

When I was in college (to which I returned in my 30's), a classmate once observed that "most people are just looking for somebody to follow." I don't know why I felt like I'd just been blasted with ice water, but I did. It's great to learn from others and seek wisdom, but what you want and need can only be found within yourself. Nobody you follow can do anything for you that you can't do for yourself. Just do it!

Phizzy

JW's want to believe, because they are so entrenched in the culture, nearly all have relatives in, kids married to JW's etc and all their "friends" are in.

They also are pre-disposed, programmed to accept Noo Lite, so much so that they actually relish it ! Then they reinforce this ready acceptance amongst themselves by saying "Isn't it wonderful !" and making themselves look a smart-arse by saying "That's what I always thought".

This latter expression, if true would show the person had Apostate leanings, "running ahead", but as it is never true it just shows they are a twat.

The whole Smoke and Mirrors game that the Gb/WT/JW Org play is so cynical in the way it views the intelligence of their audience that it becomes apparent to many, who wake up and leave.

Just as a successful Joke for a Standup Comedian has a certain structure and length to it, so does a Magic trick, there must be an intro, a preparing of the mind, a sleight of hand moment, some more diversion, then a finale Ta Da !

The GB have mastered the structure and timing of their Magic Tricks to such a degree that the "audience" do not, like people in a Theatre, realise that they are participating in make believe, the R&F JW's think it is real !

Those who remain, totally accepting all the sewage they are being fed quite happily, are probably going to remain "in" until they die.

Vidiot

It gets really scary when a group wants something to be true SO BADLY (in the face of evidence that it is not) that they begin to manifest extremist behavior.

AndDontCallMeShirley

they are too invested in WTS and just have to hang on and believe. They want to believe, no matter how ridiculous the doctrine gets.

"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It’s simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back." -- Carl Sagan, A Demon Haunted World

Magnum

I know that if I had not already left, I would have stormed out on the day they studied "overlapping generation." I am quite confident I couldn't have stayed for such an obvious switcharoo just to make the end seem imminent and try to explain how WTS was wrong, but not entirely wrong in the past.

But I had to wonder how that change (or others) didn't cause most JW's to walk out. My best theory is that they are too invested in WTS and just have to hang on and believe. They want to believe, no matter how ridiculous the doctrine gets.

You hit the nail on the head about the new "generation" doctrine. "An obvious switcharoo just to make the end seem imminent and try to explain how WTS was wrong, but not entirely wrong in the past" is exactly what it is. I think that was the final nail in my coffin.

I think one factor is just plain old intelligence (or the lack thereof). The intelligence levels of most of us on here just simply filtered out the "generation" nonsense; it couldn't get past our "sensors", but many JWs are not as smart or insightful as we are. Some just think that the GB and the other big-shot brothers at Bethel are so smart that whatever they say must be right. So they reason that, for example, the "generation" doctrine goes over their heads and it's just too "deep" (JW term) for them because really smart people came up with it. They reason that they'll understand it when their minds are perfect in the "new world".

I agree with you in your saying "They want to believe, no matter how ridiculous the doctrine gets." They want to believe so strongly that they can't even entertain any opposing thoughts. With some, I believe it's because they're getting older and closer to death and they just can't consider the possibility that their hope of everlasting life could be false. For example, I've seen a change in my JW mother. She used to be more honest and reasonable. She would gripe and complain about some JW stuff and, for example, say it was stupid or didn't make sense. She doesn't do that anymore. She has said things that let me know she's contemplating how much time she has left, so I believe she is scared to consider any doubts at this point in life.

Much of the problem for those that "Just Want to Believe" is that they are so deeply rooted. They cannot even consider that the "trick" is just a trick.

Yep, they just can't bring themselves to mentally go there. It would mean that they had wasted perhaps years or decades. All those Saturday mornings knocking on strangers' doors - wasted. They would be lost with no direction. They would no longer have all the answers. They would be just like everybody else; they would no longer be superior. They would no longer have the secret, special knowledge leading to eternal life. Nope, they just can't even consider it.

It's like a situation that occurred with me a few years ago. I had an animal (a wild animal that I raised from infancy) that had a sickness that was difficult to diagnose. It would go away and then come back and almost kill him. One of the signs was limping and a bg swollen lump on one of his hind legs. I loved this animal dearly and suffered a lot of anxiety during his periods of sickness. I spent several thousand dollars taking him to out of state vets. After a particularly bad episode during which he came really close to death, we gave him another round of a medicine we had tried with some success earlier, and he seemed to recover completely. He got healthy enough that a vet finally OK'd a surgery (nothing to do with the sickness) that he needed. The very next morning after his surgery he was up at 5:30am rough playing with me. A month or two passed and I was so happy that my boy was cured.

And then... one morn my wife said "hey I think I see a small knot on XXXXX's leg" (can't give name; too many know about it and might reveal my ID). I remember the feeling in my guts when she said that. In the back of my mind, what she said registered and I briefly processed it and considered the implications, but I rapidly suppressed those thougts. I didn't even want to consider the possibility. I even said something like "I'm sure it's nothing; he probably just bumped it on something." But as much as I desperately tried to refrain from going there mentally, I finally had to. The end of the story is bad; that episode devastated me.

But again, my point is that I just didn't even want to consider the possibility that my little buddy might be sick again. Many JWs just don't even want to consider the possibilty that they could be wrong because of the implications of being so.

GrreatTeacher

This is a great comparison, OTWO. In real life, I don't know many adults who actually believe magic is real. They might go to a magic show just to be amazed at the slipperiness of the human mind or at the incapacity to see that things might be working differently than they at first seem. But, they don't believe it is actual "magic."

Children might be fooled. They don't have enough life experience to know what they don't know. Likewise, Witnesses don't have enough exposure to the real world to realize they might have been fooled. Children grow up and gain experience, but Witnesses stay in their own world without much exposure to critical thinking.

Like some have said, some people's minds are more predisposed to doing the critical thinking necessary to deconstruct the circular logic, and those are the ones who escape. But, those who just aren't critical thinkers and who like to be followers have a much more difficult time thinking outside of the Watchtower magic box.

OnTheWayOut

Just Kidding, that is an awesome place to reach- the point of no longer being able to support nonsense beliefs.

Thanks for the pep talk, Mum. Most of us here are no longer just wanting to follow something.

Phizzy, you make an excellent point. "That's what I always thought." That mentality that they changed something allows for that without even really thinking about what the change means.

Vidiot, I hate the extremist behavior- shunning, labeling as mentally diseased. They have a fence and anything not fully on their side of the fence belongs on the other, heck the fence belongs on the other side too.

Shirley, that's a great very-appropriate quote from Carl Sagan. Thanks.

Magnum, I go along with what you say, but that's just in the minds of those that want to believe that understanding such garbage as "overlapping generation" can be said to be too deep. Thanks for sharing a personal story that makes the point.

Hey, Grreat. Often, even children know it's a trick and want to know what the trick is- when we are talking magic. But so many JW's just want to say that it's really just beyond them to figure out what the doctrine is saying. They just want to know it's true.

Phizzy

" Well, I believe it is the Truth, and that's good enough for me " , how often have we heard JW's say that ?

But that attitude is indicative of a completely closed mind, and if not changed, will ensure that the person remains entrapped forever by charlatans of the first order.

" Wanting to believe " is not the same as the thing believed in actually being true, but getting such a "wanter" to examine his/her beliefs is impossible.

stillin

Easy to get swept up in the group excitement when a good trick has been performed. The awe at having just witnessed something extra-special is contagious and pleasant. We may first begin to try to figure out how this trick worked, but only very briefly. We are swept along and, in the case of your magic trick, we enjoy the entertainment value.

You have to know the witnesses pretty well to pick up on excitement in their midst, but it's there sometimes.

Unfortunately, our deductive thinking may not kick in until later.

Many Member Just Want to Believe

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