Just quit quietly - the law is on your side!

by Ajax 77 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  TD

  Ajax,

  Human Rights laws are probably administered by your state rather than national-

  In the United States, human rights are defined at the most basic level in our constitution. They're defined more specifically at the Federal Level though the various civil rights acts and agencies like the USCCR, EEOC, etc. At the State level, it's even more specific and includes such things as how long an employee in the private sector can be worked before they must be given a break and what constitutes a legal marriage.

  My wife is only in at this point out of fear of losing her family and like I said, I've actually paid an attorney to research this. What she told me is not materially different that what Chaserious has been saying on this and other threads. The only legal remedy we would have here is through tort law and the JW organizations have carefully crafted their policy to avoid this.

  "You can't fire me because I've already quit" is a trope in American comedy and I guess I understand how it would take some of the sting out of the whole situation.
• 

  Phizzy

  I still think Ajax' idea has merit, but this whole thing reminds me of a session I had with my Accountant, we were trying to think of ways, or rather I was, of avoiding paying tax on the disposal of a profitable business.

  Everything I thought of was covered by the " been there done that" of the Inland Revenue as our "taxman" is known here in the U.K.

  They have seen every trick in the book and have closed every loophole.

  Well, not every one, one idea was put to me by the Accountant, it was illegal if found out, but no way would it have been found out, I refused because as an active JW I just could not do that, finally he found a legal way for me to do it. No Tax paid.

  This may be one "loophole" the WT have not prepared for.

  Why not simply have your Certified Document ready, just in case all else fails ? it may work, despite the lack of legal "strength".
• 

  SAHS

  “Ajax”: “When someone needs to escapes from abuse, the technicalities of the method of escape are irrelevant.”

  That is certainly a fundamental truth based on the universal principle of natural law. Abuse is abuse, and it should not be required of anybody to take abuse, either of their person, their free will, or their intrinsic legal human rights.

  However, if a person were to in any way attempt to rely on some legally signed, witnessed, and dated document, then that document would have to be sent and delivered to the party to which it is directed in a timely fashion to effectively and fairly communicate the content and essence of that document. People or organizations are not required to be mind readers.

  But having said that, of course, in a case of universally recognized abuse – such as the Watchtower’s smear tactic and coercive instrument of public disfellowshipping – then no such legal document would be needed, as the right to leave one’s religion (as explicitly specified in Article 18 of UN’s Universal Declaration of Human Rights) is already deemed to be a basic universal and inalienable right of everyone. (At least in theory and on paper.) Requiring any kind of legal disassociation letter would be like requiring a battered wife to produce some legal document to escape a dangerous domestic situation, or requiring a child sex slave to get a legal letter drafted by a lawyer to escape forced slavery or unlawful coercion and confinement.

  Being effectively held against one’s will through fear and intimidation techniques of the Watchtower clearly violates the principles of basic human rights, and should really also be prohibited by law, especially considering all the fear, depression, and even suicides which are – and have already been – the obvious and tangible offshoots of this despicable practice of forced shunning to blackmail followers into compliance and servitude.

  I think that our best weapon as XJWs is not so much to individually seek legal redress but, rather, the power of the media, in all its forms, to publically expose the cult. That way, instead of having to waste enormous funds on civil and/or legal proceedings, we can all band together with our collective voice to hit the cult where it hurts the most: general public opinion. That way, we can not only liberate ourselves but be the catalyst for others to be able to liberate themselves also.

  Remember, we do have the power. No secret preemptive written disassociation in our arsenal is really necessary.
• 

  Ajax

  Chaserious -

  The reference I made about damages was not in regard to being DFd while still in.

  If you chose to stay stay IN - you get exactly what you deserve - thats the attitude of the law. You want to join a cult?- prepare for cult justice.

  Now Tony Morris has told us that JWs are free to leave any time they want.

  So we leave freely - without explaination, controversy or arguement. The only way to avoid those things is to not speak to the elders .

  When we left we wrote a little document, signed it, dated it and had it notarized. You know- in case of Alzheimers, or hyenas or something.

  Some of us still like to go to the hall because we have real, actual loved ones there. We like to see our grandkids give talks and bible readings -so we can talk to them later about why the bible contains such horrible,silly stories, and that with a good education their lives will be just great..

  Soon, the elders notice how quiet we seem, and happy and contented - something is not right! So they approach to quetion, cajole, counsel but you tell them theres no need to worry about you because you´re only there to help the grandkids, give some hugs and toussel some hair.

  But what about your dedication? they ask. You explain how you are 100% dedicated to your family now and thats why you come. you explain that strong loving families are the building block of your community and all human societies around the world.

  What about the truth? they ask.

  Did I say something that wasn't true? you ask.

  We mean what about our WT/JW Industrial Armeggedon Complex? they ask again.

  Oh, I quit that just like Tony said - you guys wanna go fishing on Saturday? I´m takin the kids here and little Brittany is comin too- I've got the snacks...

  A sickening look of dread crosses the elders faces - you wink at your better half and head for the door

  Might see you guys next week, unless we win the bowling on Thursday night...

  You have now peacefuly left with the blessing of Tony Morris. You've done nothing wrong while in, you've done nothing illegal

  The only detail that might remain is to draft that letter of demand that your name never be used in any announcements as it would violate your privacy and your brother-in-laws lawywer really hates that kind of stuff

  But it may never come to that because thats human rights territory and the watchtower will only lose from here on in- they cannot be seen to be fighting against the human rights freedoms that civil society has fought so hard for. What would a win even look like in such a contest??
• 

  Ajax

  TD -

  Trope - commonly recurring literary or rhetorical devices or cliches used in creative works..

  Thanks for the great new word. And believe me, your comedic trope ocurred to me the very first post I made. But then I thought

  ¨What if a person really did quit before they were fired?¨

  Watchtower already has nothing to offer intellectuals, the socially aware, freedom seekers, activists, humanitarians, environmentalists, the liberated of any stripe, those of other viewpoints.

  They have no interest whatever in transparency of a multibillion dollar enterprise subsidized by tax dollars, and lie to their own simpleton members.

  They will ultimately fire every single person who doubts, wonders, questions, slacks, slows or fades.

  They will fire each and every person who dares, dreams or desires .

  Who would wait to be fired by an organization with this inevitable future?

  Since we owe absolutely nothing to them, and they have no intention of ever providing anything for us - I thought why not just start a better future and just QUIT QUIETLY
• 

  Simon

  Being effectively held against one’s will through fear and intimidation techniques ...

  The problem is the 'effectively'.

  Yes, they effectively do all of those things but they don't actually do them to the extent that the law would care about.
• 

  Ajax

  SAHS -

  Thanks for your beautifully written comments on this topic.

  The WT is not required to be a mind reader in this situation- it was their own imperial representative who publicly said we could leave and free to do so.

  Free - no charge, at liberty, release liberate, exempt from duty, available to do..., politically independant, unfettered, loose, unrestrained...

  This was very generous of Mr. Morris, and it has only now occurred to me that perhaps he expects and wants people to leave.This would lighten the burden on elders who have hitherto had to entertain the rank and files ideas of reforms, ponder their notions of alternate understandings, ruminate over their enlightened questionings, all the while crushing their ambitions for education, creativity and independent thought.

  All this is taking their valuable time away from the essentials- propoganda, unthinking obedience, and busy busy work. Their time is better spent on a smaller number of the easier to manipulate than a larger number of doubters and questioners.

  Is this an explaination of the societies offer?
• 

  GLTirebiter

  Don't get so preoccupied with the DA letter / JC/ DF situation that you neglect something important. See my comment in this thread.