It's a cult. Individual results may vary.
DD
Just quit quietly - the law is on your side!
by Ajax 77 Replies latest jw friends
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DesirousOfChange
I assumed you were in the US, as that is really the only place that imposes extensive tort liability where this would even be a discussion.
The more complicated issue (for most JWs or X-JWs) is that an attorney in the US is not free. Not even cheap. Not even affordable for the average person unless you're considering a 2nd mortgage on your home.
A close business friend is currently being sued in what he says is a "frivilous suit", however the defense costs already exceed $50K and they are not yet to depositions, let alone had their "day in court". Do you have an extra $50 Grand laying around to piss away just to make your point? The WTS would likely provide free counsel to the Congregation (they say they won't, but they will if they don't want a precedent to be set) and they will drag it out with needless motions that cost you $$, but is just a game for them.
Doc
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pcop
Everyones circumstances are different. Some have close family and friends that they are "emotionally" attached to and this makes it difficult (even if one no longer feels and believes as they do).
Then there are those who have been told that there is no other place to go "outside" of "the organization" and there is a modicum of belief within the individual that they might lose out of the prospect of eternal life if they severe ties with "the organization." Sadly, many these individuals have not come to understand that Christ is "the way, the truth and THE LIFE" not a religious organization as they have no power of granting eternal destruction and eternal life. Religious organization has "stolen" and "usurped" a role not given to them.
There is a certain fear of leaving the organization. Many who leave (whether by disfellowshipment or disassociation) eventually go back because of this "certain fear" that there is no place to go and that they will lose their lives if they are out of the organization.
After more than 30 years as a baptized JW, I left quitely by disassociation. This came as a complete and utter shock to those who knew me. No one was expecting it as I would have been counted as the last person to leave the organization. I remember the last meeting I attended (the Service Meeting) and I knew on the evening I walked out of the Kingdom Hall, I would not return. I kindly said "good night" to the "friends" as I usually did but would not return.
No law on earth can keep you bound to a religious organization. When one became a JW you did not sign any legal documents, you just uttered a baptismal vow.
A close look at the wording of the baptismal vow shows that it is a vow to "the organization" and not to God and Christ. The wording of the vow says that it is "the organization" who decides whether one is a worshiper of God. It says as long as one is associated with the organization one is then a "Jehovah's Witness."
Worshipers of God and Servants of Christ are not to be determined by any human agency. No religious organization paid the price for the purchase of mankind. Only Christ paid that price and is thus mankinds Head and Owner. (1Cor 11:3)
It is Christ who will determine who his true servants are, not any religious organization. (Matthew 7:21-23)
If possible, I would advise one to "get out" of ALL religious organizations. Count it as a blessing and rejoice AS LONG AS you go to "The Person" of Christ.
There does not exist anywhere on earth for Christs true disciples to go "into." In other words, there are no religious systems or organizations established by him that we are to go "into."
Christ did not go "into" anything. In fact, he "went out" into a wilderness and was there tempted by the Devil. Christ called his first 12 disciples "out of" a religious system "to himself."
The Apostle Paul knew this very well. He knew that Christ did not establish a religious system (but a Brotherhood) and Paul cautioned that Christs disciples were not to "go into" systems of organization (camps and cities) to worship the Father and serve Christ BECAUSE none existed.
Rather, Paul taught that true disciples of Christ were to "GO OUTSIDE" those established things. It was "OUTSIDE" the camp that Christ was. So rather than join and "go into" these camps, we leave them and "go outside the camp" to the person of Christ.
Notice at Hebrews 13:13-14 that disciples of Christ have not city (place of organization) to go into, it is yet to come.
"Let us, then, go forth to him outside the camp, bearing the reproach he bore, for we do not have here a city that continues, but we are earnestly seeking the one to come."
Do not confuse this with meeting together. Meeting places today under the banners of Catholicism, Mormonism, Seventh Day Adventism, Jehovah's Witnesses (WTBTS), etc are "cities" where people are organized and divided.
This is not what God and Christ intended as discipleship is to the "religious organization" and not "to Christ."
Neither did God or Christ command anyone to be called by such titles. To accept such titles upon oneself make one an adulterer as the title/name Christ told us to be called by is simply, Disciples.
To take another name other than the one he told us to be called is like being married to another person (religious organization or system).
The world is in an adulterous state at present.
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Ajax
Chaserious -
Thanks again for your interest and knowledgable comments. (I know nothing and need and really appreciate your help)
Your legal point - ¨...principles of contract law requrie you to communicate something with your counterpart.¨
Tony Morris is on public record as asserting that JWs are free to leave any time they want (does anyone know where he said this?) That being the case, we who quit quiety are only responding to the offer of freedom made by one of the societies very own popes.
Therefore there is two-way communication of lawful intents. Yes? Leaving is just our response to the offer they made years ago.
Your legal point - ¨The traditional rule is called the mailbox or posting rule, which makes something in writing effective when you place it in the mail to another party; not when you write it yourself intend for it to secretly have effect.¨
I doubt that a Human rights commission/tribunal would care too much about this. When someone needs to escapes from abuse, the technicalities of the method of escape are irrelevant.
A tribunal enironment is somewhat different from a trial- the needs of the abused are paramount and the legal technicalities and rights of the abuser to continue abuses would be carefully scrutinized and hugely embarrassing for a secretive organizations such as WT/JW. For example - a tribunal would learn that reading of ones name at a meeting is more than just a factual statement , but that it is,and has been for years, the secret que to incite mass discrimination of the named person. This is one example of the very situations that human rights commissions are trying to end. It is also illegal.
For people who wish to stay in some association with those at the hall, like the Gorbies - it might be appropriate to mail their document at some time when it becomes obvious that the hyenas are crazed by the scent of blood. It´s till a done deal, a response to Tonys offer, and an action that is legally protected by human rights law. We could hold the WT/JW strictly liable because it was they who made the offer ,yes?
Please reply.
Ajax
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Ajax
Balaam -
I suspect you are nearly 100% correct. The elders are trained by the WT to shepherd docile, dumbed-down, delusioned sheep of their own making.
Rammy, agressive, insatiably curious goats are a completely different animal - I am a farm boy and learned this the hard way!
I accepted my appointment as an elder years ago because I thought it was a position to help and support others. I cetrtainly would have had no share in supporting the congregation nor the society in any effort to knowingly curb people freedoms, and certainly not to fight freedom in court and look like the fools from New York.
Local elders will be totally unprepared for organized leaving approaches and to be prepared by the society, to persecute those who wish to leave will likely be a huge catylst to losing even more of the current elders.
The congregation/societies legalism will blow up right in their faces. People join churches to enjoy the company of Christians not lawyers
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Chaserious
The more complicated issue (for most JWs or X-JWs) is that an attorney in the US is not free. Not even cheap. Not even affordable for the average person unless you're considering a 2nd mortgage on your home.
It's true that legal fees are costly. And this is the reason why if the result you want is not to be hounded/DF'd etc, threats of legal action may work. The elders themselves may be afraid of incurring such attorneys' fees.
But for those interested in suing over being DF'd/DA'd/announcements being made, I think the most complicated issue is that the lawsuits are not meritorous. If you have a tort action with merit, it is not hard to get an attorney to take the case on a contingency fee arrangement. For example, I would be shocked if any of the sexual abuse plaintiffs in the WTS cases discussed on this site have paid a dime in legal fees.
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Ajax
Chaserious -
What defines a tort action and why would human rights claims not qualify as meritorious in the US?
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Chaserious
Ajax, you can get out anytime you want. The law recognizes that. Just dont expect to get damages if they announce you are out. I am a little confused by your presumption of a human rights tribunal. I am not aware of anywhere that has a human rights tribunal where any person can just file a claim for money damages based on a novel theory of a "human rights" violation. Perhaps you can be more specific about where you are aware of something like this existing? Personaly, I think the best thing to do is just be happy that you are out.
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Chaserious
A tort is a civil wrong, and to have a case in a court of law, your case has to fit in the parameters of a recognized tort. Negligence, battery, libel, slander, false imprisonment fraud are all torts, for example.
If you live in a US state that has something called a human rights commission or something similar, mostly what they do is investigate employment and/or housing discrimination cases and sometimes decide damages to keep a backlog out of the courts. They arent catchall "human rights" tribunals.
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Simon
It's a strange situation. People no longer want to be JWs but they don't want the WTS telling certain other JWs (friends and family) of the fact because they want to be able to associate with them. At the same time, you can't force anyone to associate with you whether they come to that decision on their own or because of outside influences.
Who is right? Who is wrong?
While the pressure that the WTS puts on families is undoubtedly morally wrong it is not illegal and any amount of legal action is simply going to be throwing money away. Unless there is some specific complaint where they have lied, smeared your reputation etc... and even then it's going to be impossible to prove because they are unlikely to have written it down.
What they are doing is what high-control groups do. It's cruel and unfair but not illegal. Your friends and family are stupid and duped but that isn't illegal either.
Life sucks. At some point we are going to be 'wronged'. It may be a small thing like someone cutting us up in traffic or a big thing like someone convincing our family not to speak to us anymore. Often, there is no real course for corrective action to be taken. We can shout and get angry but it doesn't really help us.
We need to let it go and accept the unpleasant reality that we've been made a victim over something and yes, it's not fair and no, there's nothing we can do about it.
We think it's the worst thing ever but there are lots of other people in other high-control religions who also face challenges leaving, some even face threats of death. So instead of looking at the bad, look atthe good - hey, we could just walk out that door and never go back. Yes, we left some people behind but that is their choice that they made.
Didn't we all make those choices once? How would anyone ever regulate that?