Kalos your responsible for making your argument by sharing what you want us to read. Put it in your own words or at least copy, paste and highlight the point or idea that makes you certain there is something important enough for the rest of us to spend the amount of time you seem to require we spend on a link we know nothing about.
God is not an element both in religious fanaticism and atheism alike
by exWTslave 80 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Viviane
Katos: reading speed and intelligence are often linked.
Simon, the article was just under 3000 words. It's unpossible that it took less than 10 minutes to read that!
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bohm
Kalos: Look, lets just assume all atheists just want to be atheists. We can still discuss what evidence there is for Gods existence. I have only read the first article you cited and this seems to be the most concrete single point:
As this article from Scientific American magazine points out, “It has been estimated that a supercomputer applying plausible rules for protein folding would need 10 to the 127th power years to find the final folded form for even a very short sequence consisting of just 100 amino acids.” And protein folding is only the first step in creating life from lifeless chemicals. Further, random processes would need a heck of a lot longer to fold proteins than would a supercomputer programmed to do so. But, the problem is, the universe is only about 15 billion years old.
Notice what the quotes says: It is computationally demanding to MODEL the folding of proteins. This has absolutely nothing to do with evolution since in nature proteins just fold themselves (or not) depending on the laws of nature. What the author of the article properly want to say is random chance generating a protein that can fold is very implausible, but this is not at all what the quote is related to.
A nearly perfect analogy would be to say wood cannot burn, because modelling how wood burns at the atomic level is computationally hard. The argument is really no better than that.
If I am irrational or not does not change the fact the author seems to lack basic reading comprehension skills.
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Simon
Viviane: Never underestimate the lack of ability of others ;)
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Caedes
Kalos,
I have also read both of them in full. The second I agree with, science does not have a theory of abiogenesis, although that has nothing to do with atheism. The only thing that can be said is that any scientific understanding of abiogenesis will materialistic not supernatural.
The first link was meaningless drivel that answered nothing, however if you really want me to I can criticise it. Normally when I go through line by line and tear this sort of thing to shreds the poster normally slinks off never to be seen again. If however you are going to stick around and back up your link I am happy to oblige.
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cofty
If however you are going to stick around and back up your link I am happy to oblige
He won't. He hasn't read it himself or he would comment on it.
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DJS
kalos,
I'm trying really hard not to refer to you as a dumbass, but you are making it very difficult. On numerous occasions we have presented voluminous amounts of empirical data which illustrates that the more atheistic and secular a person, region or nation is, the more likely they are to be ethical, intelligent and functional. And yet you continue to spew utter bullshit. Here is one of them. We got lots. Atheists appear to behave better, on average, that theists regardless of which make believe god the yocals believe in.
Cross-National Correlations of Quantifiable Societal Health with Popular Religiosity and Secularism in the Prosperous Democracies: A First Look (2005) (Off Site PDF) by Gregory S. Paul
In this landmark study, Gregory S. Paul compares rates of religiosity and societal dysfunction between 18 democratic nations in the developed world in order to "test whether high rates of belief in and worship of a creator are necessary for high levels of social health." Paul finds that "in almost all regards the highly secular democracies consistently enjoy low rates of societal dysfunction," demonstrating that widespread religious belief does not improve societal health, and that moreover there is a positive correlation between a first-world country's level of religiosity (e.g., the degree of confidence that a traditional monotheistic God exists) and level of social dysfunction (e.g., homicide rates).
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DJS
Another one:
The godless commit less crime, have longer marriages and are more highly educated than almost any other group in America.
According to Federal Bureau of Prisons data, the number of responding people in prison acknowledging they were Catholic was 39 percent; Protestant, 35 percent; Muslim, 7 percent; Jewish, 2 percent; and godless, 0.2 percent (20 percent did not respond). Since the number of godless is estimated to be 10 percent of the general population, all things being equal you would expect their prison population to be 10 percent.
If, as many people assume, the godless do not lead moral lives, you would expect the number to be greater than 10 percent. The fact that the actual number is 50 times less than expected can lead to only one of two conclusions: either the godless commit less crime than the religious or they’re too smart to get caught very often.
According to a Barna Research Group report, an evangelical Xtian polling firm, fundamentalist Christians have the highest divorce rate, followed by Jews and Baptists. The godless are tied with Catholics and Lutherans for the lowest divorce rate. It seems that some groups that claim to follow the Bible most strictly are not putting their money where their mouths are. The godless who are thought to be without morals seem to take their vows more seriously.
According to a Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life Survey, the least-educated Americans are Jehovah’s Witnesses, followed by black Protestants and fundamentalist Christians. The most highly educated are reformed Jews, followed by Unitarian Universalists and the godless.
Some groups seem to like their flocks ignorant so that pastors’ interpretations of God’s edicts are not questioned. Other groups prize scholarship and achieve more in their lives here on Earth.
In fact, a review of worldwide studies found that criminality and religion go hand in hand. The countries with the most religious people have the highest crime rates, highest sexually transmitted diseases and the highest teen pregnancy rates.
This is also true in the United States. The more religious a state’s population, the higher the crime, STD and teen pregnancy rates.
So what conclusion can be reached? It is obvious that you do not have to believe in a higher power in order to live a moral and successful life. Quite the opposite.
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DJS
More from the 2005 study, Dumbass.
Journal of Religion & Society Volume 7 (2005)
ISSN 1522-5658
Cross-National Correlations of Quantifiable Societal Health with Popular Religiosity and Secularism in the Prosperous Democracies (2005) (Off Site PDF) by Gregory S. Paul
“There is evidence that within the U.S. strong disparities in religious belief versus acceptance of evolution are correlated with similarly varying rates of societal dysfunction, the strongly theistic, anti-evolution south and mid-west having markedly worse homicide, mortality, STD, youth pregnancy, marital and related problems than the northeast where societal conditions, secularization, and acceptance of evolution approach European norms."
"Indeed, the data examined in this study demonstrates that only the more secular, pro-evolution democracies have, for the first time in history, come closest to achieving practical “cultures of life” that feature low rates of lethal crime, juvenile-adult mortality, sex related dysfunction, and even abortion. The least theistic secular developed democracies such as Japan, France, and Scandinavia have been most successful in these regards. The non-religious, pro-evolution democracies contradict the dictum that a society cannot enjoy good conditions unless most citizens ardently believe in a moral creator. The widely held fear that a Godless citizenry must experience societal disaster is therefore refuted. Contradicting these conclusions requires demonstrating a positive link between theism and societal conditions in the first world with a similarly large body of data – a doubtful possibility in view of the observable trends."
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DJS
Another, Dumbass,
They say that religion is the opiate of the masses, but it seems that the opiates of the religious are antidepressants.
A study released recently confirmed that Mississippi remains the most religious state in the Union, followed by a handful of its southern belt brothers: Alabama, Louisiana, Arkansas, Oklahoma, as well as the Mormon stronghold of Utah. The Gallup poll showed that 58 percent of all Mississippians identify as “very religious.” The least religious states in the U.S. are the former stomping grounds of the very,very religious Puritans: Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Vermont, Maine and New Hampshire.
But life in these highly faithful states doesn’t seem to be all its cracked up to be. The most religious states in the U.S. share another trait: the highest use of anti-depressants.
Utah has long been the nation’s capital of happy pill popping, with its citizens twice as likely to be on anti-depressants than the general U.S. population. But the rest of the observant states aren’t far behind. Of the top-ten most religious states, nine have higher than average use of anti-depressants.
Some states have startlingly medicated populations. In Utah, Louisiana and Arkansas–the 2nd, 4th and 5th most religious states in the Union– nearly 20 percent of the population is on some form of anti-depressants, according to a 2006 study by one of the largest prescription companies.
This is just talking about anti-depressants. Do you want to see the empirical data on other dysfunctions??