God is not an element both in religious fanaticism and atheism alike

by exWTslave 80 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • cofty
    cofty

    By the way here is a quote from the author of your second link...

    Creationists.. explanations suffer from the same flaw: What created the divine Creator? And at least scientists are making an honest effort to solve life’s mystery instead of blaming it all on God.

    All the article says is that we have not yet solved the puzzle of abiogenesis. So what?

    We have proven evolution beyond all doubt and fantastic progress is being made on the origins of respiration and replication.

    What has theology said in the past 500 years that was even remotely interesting?

  • cofty
    cofty

    If a superstitious belief in god is the only thing acting as a moral constraint on Kalos and his friends, that is very worrying.

  • Kalos
    Kalos

    cofty and viviane,

    You could have read the links before your could comment negatively on them!

  • Viviane
    Viviane

    You could have read the links before your could comment negatively on them!

    We both quoted from them, so clearly we DID read them.

    Since you believe that I, as an atheist, only am an atheist because I seek to be free from moral constraint, please enlighten me specifically as to which moral contraint I am lacking.

  • bohm
    bohm

    exwtslave: Similarly, everything we see is matter, yet matter itself and the way it acts are proofs for the existence of God. Because universe is composed of matter, and, as a system, is sustained by motion. Motion is not a property of matter, and without this motion, all systems such as the solar system …. could not exist.

    Okay I think I can agree so far as motion is not a property of matter. However you need to consider what motion is. One way to put this is to say motion is the way two objects change their relationship over time, for instance to say a ball move towards the ground is to say their relationship in space is changing at some rate, the rate being determined by laws of physics. Can we agree so far?

    THE NATURAL STATE OF MATTER IS A STATE OF REST. Motion, or change of place, is the effect of an external cause acting upon matter.

    this is where the problems begin. Your conception of motion is in essense pre-newtonian. At that time it was thought the natural state of matter was indeed rest and everything would eventually come to rest. Come the advant of newtons laws it was apparent the natural state of matter is to *not change direction or speed* if not acted upon by external forces. In this more modern view the natural state of motion is whatever state it was in previously and whatever forces is acting upon it.

    Everything which has hitherto been discovered relates only to the laws by which motion acts, AND NOT TO THE CAUSE OF MOTION.

    ...another way to put this is to say all we know about motion up to this point is that it is simply determined by laws, i.e. there is no need for an external cause.

    Were motion a property of matter, that undiscovered and undiscoverable thing called perpetual motion would establish itself?

    but we agreed motion was not a property of matter.

  • Kalos
    Kalos

    Viviane

    Your comment came after 13 minutes of my posting that link—it is obvious that you had only a CURSORY look on them!

  • cofty
    cofty

    I read the secomd link in it's entirety and scanned the first one - it was the usual garbage. I have read hundreds of similar ill-informed christian ramblings.

    I asked you to summarise what you consider to be the best arguments in the article succinctly in your own words. Still waiting.

  • Viviane
    Viviane

    Your comment came after 13 minutes of my posting that link—it is obvious that you had only a CURSORY look on them!

    So now your're claiming to know how fast I read, type and whether or not I had read that previously? How ignorant of you.

    In any event, being ignorant doesn't get you off the hook.

    Since you believe that I, as an atheist, only am an atheist because I seek to be free from moral constraint, please enlighten me specifically as to which moral contraint I am lacking.

  • Simon
    Simon

    Katos: reading speed and intelligence are often linked.

    True believers of nonsense are still on red book 2 and read a - word - at - a - tim - timey? - oh, time!

    It helps explain their belief in such utter stupid that defies the known laws of physics and insistence that the normal rules of reason and evidence don't apply to them.

  • Simon
    Simon

    'God as a creator' to explain existence is no difference to 'turtles all the way down' to explain what's holding up the earth.

    Was there a super-god that created god? And a super a supper a god that created super-god?

    How far back do we need to go. Infinity is a long time.

    Science has an answer that fits all the known facts.

    Religious nuts are not allowed to be told though.

    They are kept in the dark for comedy purposes.

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