Good point rebel8.
When somebody converts to Islam, Muslims arrogantly say they have "reconverted".
Atheists really can say they have returned to atheism.
Welcome home.
MY CONCLUSION IS: 'GOD' DOESN'T EXIST
by NAVYTOWN 49 Replies latest jw friends
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tootired2care
- Epicurus 33 AD
Great philosopher, but he actually lived much earlier, 341-270 B.C.E.
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Island Man
NAVYTOWN, here's an interesting scripture. It's very, very, very ironic when you apply it to God:
But whoever has this world’s means for supporting life and beholds his brother having need and yet shuts the door of his tender compassions upon him, in what way does the love of God remain in him? Little children, let us love, neither in word nor with the tongue, but in deed and truth. - 1 John 3:17,18
God has the means for supporting life and aleviating suffering in the world and beholds humans having need and suffering and yet shuts the door of his tender compassions upon them. In what way does the love of God remain in God? LOL. Christians, your God should love, neither in your heart nor on the pages of the bible, but in deed and truth.
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opusdei1972
What if God is good and evil at once ?..... aren't we in his image and likeness?
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Ocean1111
Atheism. Welcome to the one religion with a worse retention rate than JWs. Congratulations. Both Atheists and JWs have men for gods and are therefore a "religion" or the definition of a "cult" which are followers of other men. Academia, politics and philosophy are also religious cults, the gods merely vary but are all human and it is all systems of "work for" or worship. Most people "fall out" of Atheism on their own though, most JWs are booted out or leave on matter of conscience. The JW system loops people like a digestive cycle, new fodder enters the Bethel mouth everyday and cares not what has been passed through the system as waste—after Bethel has sucked out as much nutrition for themselves as possible.
Good luck with that attempt of faith, because Atheism takes more faith than believing there is a God. I guess Satan is a matter of faith as well and in the story he would have hoped Job drew the same conclusion as you seem to think will work for you. But the development turned out otherwise in the case of Job. It seems Atheists and JWs are the ones now grappling the most with their faith because to fall out of Atheism I guess one believes some sort of intelligent source of vast universal energy must exist. It takes great faith believing the massive energy requirement of the physical simply spontaneously generates from pure nothingness. It is not truth in essence, it is faith. People have faith Einstein got it right. But we know the "quantum" and the "relativity" realms do not merge properly as they would, as they should, if Einstein had the whole picture. Man has most of it wrong, but considers it truth anyways, when in fact it takes faith to consider error the truth. The whole human world, one way or another, is based on faith in this and that.
If you allow anger and frustration to be the backbone of your faith you will prevail as an Atheist. imo, how can blaming God and being so angry with him equate instead to there being no God? The basic drive to Atheism, imo, is a weird conundrum that used anger at God as the basis for proof of his non-existence. Very interesting psychological logic.
Maybe the real problem is that there actually is an evil spirit at work in the universe and in the works and direction of man, and he is not physical and he wants people to doubt Gods existence and to "curse God and die", the goal of true evil. He is anti-life, as are the human system activities on Earth, but it is a cycle merely permitted by God. True evil cannot exist in essence or in human beings and human systems without an origin. If God or nothing is the origin of the evils of this world, that are the ultimate source of anger and frustration, then we are all screwed; and true it appears to be such. But it does not alleviate the role organized human evils play in man's and life's misery on earth. Maybe that i the problem "growth" that needs to be removed. Atheism does not address the true problem of the human being, it gives an escape to attempt to serve a lifetime. But the stats show most people find Atheism unsatisfactory. May be due to the basic conundrum of its "logicalness".
But maybe there is more to the whole story. Those who keep looking for more to the story, not less (the no God theory), are the ones that cannot deal with Atheism which ultimately requires the lobotomy of basic physical understanding. If there is no God, there can be no energy, energy was created, but it could not have been produced from non-energy. The foundation of many of the human laws of physics have fundamental flaws, none of them truly deal with the creation of physical energy, they deal with it after the fact via things like "big bang" which really do not address the essence of the appearance of massive energy, energy beyond human computation.
There is a God and there is an adversary of all life in this universe, and hopefully Atheism proves as unsatisfying to you as it has to millions of others, imo. The more you look and deal with the negativity by understanding humans do have evil, God is not a source of blame, then the more you will discover. And part of the discovery is mankind's lack of love, lack of God in actual life mission, is why even religions turn evil—in fact they lead the pack. The hardest direct command is loving everyone, and thus not loving God is a by-product of hatred in its essence. And that hatred and other vices of humanity is the source of the global planetary system ills. It is not with God, it is not with the universal life basis, it is not with animals, the viral and destructive problem of this planet is human. Enough powerful human beings doing whatever they please through well developed systems of planetary and human predation. Greed certainly doesn't help the reality.
Of course addressing that "human" problem is enormous and it cannot be gradually applied unless human systems will attempt to address the problem, then it has to be incremental. One way or another the evils of man on a limited planetary system of actually great internal power will equate to an abruption from the life system itself, or from another source, because man is not the most powerful being in the life system, the life system is. In mans "man versus nature" war, nature will win. Nature has not even thrown the first punch yet, but it will.
You can choose to help others anyway you can, that is really all we can do that makes life have meaning. Atheism aids predatory behavior for there is only the law of the jungle as the basic truth. The rest is fluff to protect the wealth centers and to try to keep a roof over a few people's heads, imo. Respecting the law of love of a higher Being will have its benefits, and death is not the end of the story, but the beginning of it. Man can take nothing with them but their record of activity in the planetary system it is all recorded in reality and light and man has an internal element that knows, thus accounting is necessary—even humans let no one off the hook without a judgment, thus it is part of the human consciousness, it is not that surprising humans are accountable. It never was God's fault, and He wants the admission of who is the guilty party on earth: the rebel human, imo.
Some will not make that admission, not my opinion but reality, and have already deemed themselves unworthy of the future reality in their own judgment of themselves imo, but the determination has to be made one way or the other, and not by the incapable human judge, and there is more time and another cycle to help humans make a truly freewill determination. As we know man's will is in slavery to various vices. Humans really cannot even judge ourselves properly is what I am saying, so this is a learning cycle.
If it wasn't a learning cycle God would have wiped man off the planet a long time ago, its obvious the root of human evil is old, it is history, and this is why, imo, people don't like history, it is bloody; meaning it was obvious from the get-go what the human experiment would equate to in time, especiallyto angelic minds that see clearly the meaning of the cycles. People can choose life as strange as it sounds now this late in the game, but the overall human system is anti-life at its collective predatory essence, and not in the way a predatory lion supports life, but in the way the human system respects no life. The human predatory system is preying on itself overall.
There is only so much time for the human experiment in the long run. Keep an open mind, you will find whatever it is you are really looking for. The human system of ills cannot cure itself, as well, from nothingness. But it will get the prescribed shot in time, because it is far more than just human life at stake. In time reality on earth must be addressed. Something beyond "some thing" considers your life valuable, imo. Death is not the ultimate power of the universe.
In my opinion, Atheism is an anti-answer. It just raises more questions it cannot answer and that is why, imo, people "fall out" of the Atheism "truth" even more than the little sampling of JWs. As religions they must have something in common to share such characteristic of low retention. But just because JWs devolved into a lie, like toher religions, doesn't mean the Bible is a lie, or God is a lie, or the Son of God is a lie, or the basic story of human history is a lie in the Bible record.
In fact such hypocrisy or unsatisfactory answer systems of human organization of lies-sold-as-truth is evidence the truth is in the basic thing being discredited: the Bible. ANd God. They take the brunt of the reproach, yet they are not the problem; people are.
And the real truth is personal, between the person and God. And God sent an agent that went through as bad a death as any human can possibly go through. So imo, Christ answered the question to the miserable condemned death, and that is enough for me. That is also enough for me to know this is not the end of the story, it is just starting to reach the start, the next cycle commencement and what must occur to activate it. Humans are who have a bigger problem coming than they think, and most of it is from our own planetary foreign system. -
NAVYTOWN
OCEAN 1111: All of your comments still don't answer my one basic question: IF there is an all-knowing, all-powerful, all-forgiving and loving 'Father' up in Heaven, WHY has he NEVER lifted a finger to assist his 'children' when his help is needed the most??? Six million Jews exterminated in Germany during Hitler's regime. Where was God????? So Hitler was evil, or under the spell of a so-called Satan.....whatever.....still God was nowhere to be found. While I suspect the Universe was formed by forces that we do not currently understand, I don't for a minute think the answers are in the Bible. There is more to Life and the Universe than we know at present, but I don't think the churches have the answers. I'm perfectly comfortable with the fact that we DON'T have all the answers. That leads to continued inquiry and scientific exploration. Having 'all the answers' can be a very limiting place to be.
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Witness My Fury
If you allow anger and frustration to be the backbone of your faith you will prevail as an Atheist. imo, how can blaming God and being so angry with him equate instead to there being no God? The basic drive to Atheism, imo, is a weird conundrum that used anger at God as the basis for proof of his non-existence. Very interesting psychological logic.
Utter bollocks. if you equate rejection of the concept of god as some kind of hissy fit then this sounds more like wishful thinking on your part in order to ease the cog dis.
Ask any atheist why instead and it will usually just come down to research and a total lack of credible evidence. Any anger and frustration seen is with having wasted years of their lives in a lie and the destructive grip religion holds over the masses.
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cofty
Ocean11111111 - I think your main point is that people who don't believe in god are angry at god.
This is what theists tell themselves so that they don't have to deal with the actual evidence against their superstitons.
It's facile.
Not only is there no evidence for god but the evidence shows beyond all reasonable doubt that the god of christian theism is a logical impossibility.
If you ever find the courage to discuss the evidence let me know.
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DJS
Alright DJS, if you ignore dumbasses they will go away. If you ignore dumbasses they will go away. If you ignore dumbasses they will go away. Where IS LisaRose when you need her?
Wow, Oceans11, that was a long piece of bullshit. Let me repeat back what I think you are saying so that I'm certain I understand. It sounded like blah, blah, blah, blah, i'm a narcissist, blah blah blah, i like typing a lot into my responses because it makes me seem smart and the sound of my own voice is the most pleasant sound, blah blah blah, I really don't know what I'm talking about and haven't done any real research about the topic but I love narcissistically ranting, blah blah blah.
At least you did use the word opinion a few times.
Oceans, your rant has been addressed so many times on this site. I know lots of atheists. None of them are angry at god or anyone else, and everyone of them has the same story; they spent years analyzing, evaluating, studying and meditating about god. Losing my relgion (that's me in the corner) was a decades long process. I have no atheist heroes. My atheism belongs to me and I never speak of it other than this site. Most of my friends are Xtians, Jews, Hindus, etc. A lof of them are atheists. Great people all.
Also, just a llittle tiny bit of good research on the www would have shown you that atheism has been increasing worldwide for many years, including the very religious US. If you include the number who identify as 'non-religious" (some are afraid to use the term atheist), lots of people are losing their religion (they gotta find their own corner. This is mine).
And as we have pointed out soooo many times, the empirical data shows that the more secular and atheistic a state, region or nation is, the more likely it is to be functional. Geesh, is there a "here's what you say to atheists" book that some of you theists use to type in canned responses??? We keep hearing the same dumbass arguments (I'm not as smart as Cofty - facile is too big of a word for me. And I've copyrighted the use of dumbass on this site. I've talked to my therapist (me) and we both agree that I simply have to use the word.
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sunny23
You can choose to help others anyway you can, that is really all we can do that makes life have meaning. Atheism aids predatory behavior for there is only the law of the jungle as the basic truth.
That first sentence embodies the outlook and mindset of all atheists i know including myself. look up secular humanism.
If there is no God, there can be no energy, energy was created, but it could not have been produced from non-energy.
Likewise, God is energy, energy could not have been produced from non energy, thus God is energy that has no beginning and this concept is equally abstract as the concept that enery was produced from non-eneregy or the concept that the energy needed for the big bang always existed. So lets throw out what you said because it's an invalid excuse. Instead look at the failed logic of the concept of YHWH
