Faith - Virtue or Vice? (page 5)

donnye

sunny23 Thank you for your comments which read

"donnye, what do you have to offer to this thread on Faith? Offer your own opinions on this topic.

So far it has been said that faith in God specifically:

Is NOT like faith in a friend you might have and can see physically
Comes from fear of death and hope for more
Can make a person misperceive value of life
Causes one to be vulnerable and easily decieved
Shouldn't logically be required for salvation

What are your thoughts to these claims and give supporting reasoning please."

Sunny23 - Please give supporting reasoning for your own opinions if you think you need to validate yourself.

Coded Logic

It means both. I would suggest knowing what you are talking about before declaring someone else wrong.

- Viviane

CL if there is one thing I have learned from Viviane, it's to know your EXACT definitions and state your points clearly and concisely!

- sunny23

Wow youg guys, way to COMPLETELY missrepresent my position. I did NOT say that faith doesn't mean trust. I said that the use of the word "faith" in the OP was not in reference to that particular meaning. Viviane, you are dead wrong and it is unfortunate you didn't take your own advice and "know what your talking about before declaring someone else wrong." I'm not sure why you are on a personal vandetta with all of my posts and comments to "prove me wrong" but the only person you're making look like a "blowhard" (your words) is yourself. Please re-read what I actually wrote on the first page of this thread:

While the word "faith" is a somewhat nebulous term and can have multiple meanings (sometimes synonymous with words like conviction, hope, etc.) it is being used in a VERY percise manner for this thread. We are talking about the sort of faith mentioned in Hebrews 11:1. Specifically, believing something without having evidence or contrary to the evidence simply because you want it to be true. Having "faith" in a person because they have demonstrated their trustworthiness in the past is no equvical.

It would be like if this thread were asking if we should preserve the natural habbitat of wild cranes because they are going extinct and then someone saying that, "cranes are great because they help unload cargo off of ships." Clearly these are two entirely different things.

-CL

sunny23

Donnye, There are supporting reasons for each of the bulleted items i listed already in this thread. I was simply summing them up briefly. I see you don't care to offer any substance to this thread, perhaps at least read it? And everyone shouldgive supporting reasonings to validate themselves. Otherwise, we would all just be spouting off baseless phrases without expounding on them. All of JW literature, especially books like the Insight, Reasoning, etc, are there to give supporting reasonings to validate their opinions and interpretations of the bible. You seem to want to only ask people about their struggles with faith on this thread. Offer something if you have something please, i'm intrigued.

CL, Lisa didn't say anything untrue or irrelevant to this thread. The OP may have been directed mostly at belief type of faith but pointing out that theists will wrongfully try and attribute trust type of faith to God is not uncalled for so much as to need "calling out" like you did. Seems like nit-picking really. If anything she was actually agreeing with your statement that "Having "faith" in a person because they have demonstrated their trustworthiness in the past is non equvical[to having faith in GOD]" Re-read her post and tell me that it doesn't agree with this. She's just stating it in different words.

I like what Terry said about Faith on your topic CodedLogic Is Faith Immoral?

"Faith is a component of survival in the self-aware.

A pathway may not be in evidence to get from point A to point B, so what remains to allow progess?

Faith allows forward momentum where a stall might otherwise be indicated.

The success comes down to a simple demonstration:

DO NOT TRY (because evidence suggests failure will occur)=NULL RESULT. Not trying guarantees failure.

TRY (even if no possibility in evidence)=POSSIBLE success. (Only those who try get a crack at what they desire.)

_________________________________

If you are alone on an island, there are no moral acts beyond maintaining life itself.

To NOT TRY to maintain life (build a fire, make a "HELP" sign out of rocks, search for food, go fishing, attempt to purify sea water, etc.) is immoral.

To give up HOPE is to condemn yourself to non-existence.

FAITH is a form of HOPE.

Hope says, "I will maintain a positive outlook and effort even though I acknowledge the possibility of failure."

Faith says, "I am absolutely convinced things will turn out for the best no matter what comes."

Faith is irrational, but has the side-effect of giving you a fighting chance."

Ucantnome

when i was a witness i always had a good reputation as did our family, as a child my teachers spoke very well of me and later so did my employers. when we left the witnesses i discussed with my parents how much of an influence they were and how much was due to our faith. i think i would have been a very different person had i not had faith and been raised as a witness. so i think it's a virtue.

Viviane

I said that the use of the word "faith" in the OP was not in reference to that particular meaning. Viviane, you are dead wrong and it is unfortunate you didn't take your own advice and "know what your talking about before declaring someone else wrong."

Wrong again! The OP didn't specifiy a particular definition and it's not your right nor priviledge to tell another poster they used the wrong one! How could she possibly have transposed something that was never specified?

I'm not sure why you are on a personal vandetta with all of my posts and comments to "prove me wrong" but the only person you're making look like a "blowhard" (your words) is yourself.

Ignorance combined with arrogance. You don't rate a vendetta, dear. It's just delicious irony to point out the errors of someone who's whirlwind entrance was to tell us all how stupid we are and continues to do so even while unable to see his own.

Remove the rafter from thine own eye.

Viviane

I did not bring up that subject! Viviane asked: " Is sex out of wedlock wrong?" I showed he knows the answer putting another question. You would note that I did not answer question " Is sex out of wedlock wrong?

You gave a meaningless non-answer. You claim knowledge, but prevaricate and pontificate when actually asked to provide something. Like so many other religious posters, trying to figure exactly what you mean and whether or not it's useful is like trying to nail jello to a wall.

nicolaou

And another topic drowns beneath the 'he said - she said' waves. Thanks guys.

Viviane

And another topic drowns beneath the 'he said - she said' waves. Thanks guys.

Or, it exposes those who have nothing better to do than spout BS and those who can spot that BS.

nicolaou

Here's a thought Viviane, take your OFF-TOPIC comments into a PM conversation and let the rest of us actually debate the topic itself. What do you think? Does that sound fair to you?

bohm

Bump.

Faith - Virtue or Vice?

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