What's the story behind Adam and Eve and fig leaves.

by jam 41 Replies latest social family

  • Dis-Member
    Dis-Member

    After the fall sin entered into the world, along with it came shame and guilt. The covering of the fig leaves was really mankinds first act of religion. Because when we sin, we want to COVER IT UP, justify our actions. Which is exactly what they attempted to do. Eve blamed it on the serpant, Adam blamed it on the woman. They hid from God out of shame.

    They covered themselves up as a reaction to their shame before God. No longer were they pure before God, but fallen. No longer good. They made clothes for themselves to cover themselves up. God instead had to make a covering for them. This is the gospel in a nutshell. Man cannot justify himself or his sins through his own actions, but only God can cover them for man. One is religion, the other is grace.

    Absolute tosh..

  • Apognophos
    Apognophos

    These are all reasonable questions and of course someone who believes in the Bible as God's Word will have a hard time answering them without making up details that aren't in the account. From a secular perspective, though, if we view the story as akin to an Aesop's fable, then it becomes a very consistent and straight-forward story:

    Why didn't God blame the more sophisticated, well travel

    serpant..

    He did! That's why he zapped the legs off the snake. It's true that the account doesn't say the snake definitely had legs before this, so we can only guess, but the fact that God cursed him to go on his belly and lick dust indicates that he was a salamander-like animal that had his legs removed as punishment. Of course from the Christian standpoint it makes no sense that God would punish a snake if the Devil made him do it, but that's okay, because the Christian believes this is really God talking symbolically to Satan, right? I mean, it's definitely not a story that intended to explain why there's this odd animal called a snake that looks like a salamander but somehow doesn't have legs

    What was God doing when EVE was talking to the serpant??

    That's where the story is marvelously self-consistent. If we note from 3:8, 9 that YHWH is not omniscient, then he didn't see this conversation simply because he was somewhere else. Some trees were in the way. Or he may have been seated on his throne in the heavens-above-the-firmament at the time. Of course the Christian believes that God saw everything and allowed this to happen as a test, which seems a bit crueler, doesn't it?

    Unless all the other animals were talking in the garden, I would

    think if a serpant spoke to me, I would have called on God.

    God, something weird is going on..

    I think you hit on the truth here. It's possible that for the storyteller, animals could talk. It's not that ancient people were ignorant and thought that animals talked to each other when humans weren't looking, or that they were gullible and believed the storyteller when he said animals could talk.

    When we read an Aesop's fable about a fox talking to a mouse, we don't say, "Okay, hold on, I gotta call BS on this, animals don't talk." We understand that the story is intended to illustrate something, not be taken literally. There's evidence that in ancient times, many of the accounts that literalists now take seriously were viewed by ancient man as interesting stories which had varying degrees of factualness.

    The gist of the Garden of Eden story is primarily just to say, "Why are things so rough for us humans if they're the pinnacle of creation? Because our first parents sinned." The details of the story were less important, and there were probably lots of versions of this story that weren't written down.

  • jam
    jam

    LOL, Didn't know what tosh was and I looked it up. I agree with you

    Dis-Member a 100%......

  • jam
    jam

    Apognophos: I really appreciate your input, but why

    is it so complicated. With us, agnostics and atheist we believe

    it to be all BS.. But among believers there is no unity in

    belief..." for the storyteller, animals could talk". If he believed

    that animals could talk don't you think that would hurt his

    credibility. We are not talking about animals talking among themselves

    but a verbal conversion with a human...

  • zeb
    zeb

    Jam Gets to take showers with his wife... lucky bastard.

    and

    Agnphos: very well put.

  • Apognophos
    Apognophos

    I really appreciate your input, but why is it so complicated.

    Well, the Christians think their explanation is better because it allows them to have an omniscient God and a prophecy about Satan (instead of just a statement that humans and snakes are not going to get along very well in the future, as a reminder of this unfortunate incident).

    Would the audience have questioned the storyteller just because he said snakes could talk? Nah. Balaam's donkey could talk, too (and there's no explicit statement there that an angel empowered the donkey to speak, or spoke through it). Besides that, as I mentioned, if the audience understood it as a fable, then they saw no problem with talking animals.

    Another possibility is that the "rules were different" in the Garden. After all, God was not walking among the people at the time the story was being told. So this could have been a special time period with different rules, in the mind of the listener. The two things that the earliest servants of God have in common are that they lived super-long and that God could personally hold an audience with them (Adam, Abraham, Moses, Jacob, etc.).

    Over time, the holiness of the ancient patriarchs was lost, lifespans dwindled, and God stopped allowing man to behold him directly. That's what's implied by the gradual shift in the Bible accounts, anyway. Meanwhile the Jews were also starting to regard their God as more and more all-powerful, even the "only true God". So it would not have been considered appropriate for a Jew in later Bible times to interact with God, but here at the beginning of time, Adam and Eve talked to him in person every day.

    But I've digressed. We don't know why the animals spoke in Eden, but odds are, the audience didn't sweat that detail too much There are tons of ancient folk tales about trickster gods and talking animals, and the serpent appears to have been both of those things.

  • prologos
    prologos

    You dont need fig leafs in a shower. it is cover-up, related to the head covering for ladies ladeling out the 'truth'

    it is beacause of the angels, getting ready to precipitate the flood, for viewing and doing.

  • Crazyguy
    Crazyguy

    I read that Lilith came through the garden one day and say Adam and Eve naked and she laughed that Adam had a small mini hotdog and Eve had little boobies so thats why they put on leaves...

  • kaik
    kaik

    Genesis is incomplete recollection of what Jewish believed and been told from one generation to another. This oral history where some of them is mixed with ancient religion and mythology became the foundation for the Genesis. According to Midrash, Serpent watched beautiful Eve making out with Adam, and desired her for himself. He planed to kill Adam by entrapping him eating the forbidden fruit. Adam and Eve did not find see the nakedness as something to be ashamed. However, this changed after Serpent seduced Eve, and probably Adam as well. After threeway sex both humans felt ashamed and decided to cover their nakedness. So they looked for tree that was willing to hide their shame. According Genesis Rabbah, all trees refused to hid the sinners, only fig was willing to help. So they used the leaves and hid there waiting for punisment to come.

  • Jeannette
    Jeannette

    My goodness kaik. That's almost as far out as what I heard. I heard that Satan had sex with Eve, and whoops, I forget how it the rest of it goes, but it sounded reasonable. Something about how God punished him for stepping out of his place, and the snake and all. Adam also had sex with Eve. She produced Cain, product of Satan, and Able, product of Adam.

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