Losing Faith in Faith..

by Dis-Member 76 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • pronomono

    Maybe this is the only part that makes some sense. But it requires God to act,.. that's just what I want to experience. His actions in my life.

    I've been searching for this for quite a while too. It hurts when you cry out to God, seeking his direction, his approval...... but nothing. You start to doubt yourself, mind racing thinking that you've done something to displease God to be getting this silent treatment..... but nothing. You want to make changes, to feel God's presence in your life..... but nothing. In times past, God offered proof that he was with his people, from the cloud pillar when Moses lead the Israelites out of Egypt to his own voice when he spoke of Jesus as his beloved whom he had approved. God acted. But now?..... nothing.

    I sincerely want that to change, but apparently it is one-sided (if God exists).

  • cofty

    abe - you fell for a great con trick.

    Jesus makes ridiculous predictons that fail completely but he adds the addendum that those who believe regardless will be ridiculed by unbelievers - i.e. rational people.

    Of course this part will come true.

    Jesus was a con man, an egotisitcal, family-destryoing cult leader and a false prophet.

    The only part he got right was that his followers would be criticised. Congratulations.

  • Phizzy

    You are too generous Cofty, " The only part he got right was that his followers would be criticised".

    The words put in to the mouth of Jesus by the gospel writer were of course written at a time when this had already "come true" = happened.

    Hardly a prophecy.

  • Maranatha

    First, I would like to make it clear that YOU asked me personally to come back to this website and post my comments. YOU are the one that came to me about Jesus. If you do not like my comments, then so be it. Stop asking me for help if you don't want to listen to what I have to say or examine all viewpoints.

    But millions of people every day are doing just that and they also fast, and pray to God for understanding including the witnesses yet none of them really understand at all do they? You too sincerely prayed for understanding when you were a witness for many many years.. where was your understanding?

    The witnesses don't even know who God is. And no, I never prayed for understanding as a JW. I was ignorant then and allowed the Soceity to tell me everything. I'm not making that mistake again. God is my first and final authority, not men.

    You understand it? Millions and millions of people say the very same thing as you. Are they all wrong and you are the only one who is right? By what authority can you say you are right? Have you promoted yourself to some elite group of enlightened anointed?

    Did I say I was right? I lean not on my own understanding. I am a Berean. I study the Scriptures to discern who is teaching what and why. I study cults and false religions.

    I have not questioned the existence of God. I said his existence can not be tested or proved. I'm not arguing about his existence. I'm talking about his presence on a daily basis and about the impossiblity of having a relationship with what is not present.

    If you question His Word, you are questioning His existence. You claim to be searching for the "Living God" but your posts lead one to believe that you already 'hate' Him.

    Your just referring me to an old history book again.. The contents of which can not be tested or verified or confirmed as true. Your telling me about a story of a story of a story from thousands of years ago and you simply expect me to just believe you? Put faith in what you are saying? Have you really read my comments? Have you understood me?

    Do you believe everything the school books tell you? You believe everything our history books tell us, but even those are lies. I don't expect you to just believe me. I don't want you to put faith in what I'm saying, I would like to see you put faith in Jesus. But you've already rejected Him. I cannot help you.

    Pharaoh does not count as apparently it was God himself who hardened his heart again and again making it impossible for him to do anything different.

    Sarah not believing is completely normal. She was 100 years old. She had no reason to believe anything that a complete stranger would tell her. Judas did not not believe in Jesus. He was just a traitor by nature. He did it for money. People will betray their own mothers or children for money even today. It's common. Nothing to do with believing or faith. It's just greed or/and wickedness.


    Hmm, you actually answered the question about whether or not God hardened Pharaoh's heart by your statement about Judas. God knows who will accept Him and who will reject Him and He will use each to His purpose.

    Sorry I don't believe any of that. You and millions of others can tell stories of their personal God and how he speaks to them and answers their prayers. (I know many who claim to hear his actual voice) Please don't ask me to base my faith on your faith or your stories.

    Fasting? If I have a child who cuts his leg and needs to be taken to a hospital.. will I make him ask me 'incessantly' first.. 'without ceasing'? And then make him skip a few meals too for 4 or 5 days days just to show me he is sincere?Abraham had a whole lot of personal experience with God.. he did not need anything to bolster his faith.
    Him wanting a child was nothing to do with faith at all. It's just a natural human desire. It was a simple wish that every normal couple has. You have no proof at all that God made him wait 25 years either. Your just assuming that.

    I am not asking God for a child. I am simply asking God for God.

    Lol. You sound just like Pharoah. Interesting. If a child cuts his leg and needs to go to the hospital, you take him to the hospital, lol. You did not understand my comment, apparently. The Bible tells us the Abraham waited 25 years for a son. I'd give you the Scriptures, but you would just reject them anyway. Abraham was 75 years old when God promised him a son. Your statement about Sarah being too old does not apply to Abraham either, huh?

    You are being illogical now. You once had faith when you were a witness that you had the complete and utter truth and no one on earth could convince you of any different because you said even of that truth that 'your faith can not be shaken'. Well obviously it got shook because then you completely trashed all of that faith and belief and truth and found yourself another 'new truth' and that this time it is 'the real true truth'.

    You don't have a very good track record of believing things it seems.

    You assume way too much. When did I ever say that my faith couldn't be shaken whenever I was a JW? I don't remember disclosing that information. I didn't completely trash that "faith". I decided to search for myself what the Bible really teaches instead of relying on magazines and books printed by the Watchtower Society. It's a steady process, it doesn't happen overnight. I abandoned religion in favor of Jesus. A huge difference. How I feel now is totally different than how I felt as a JW. But you will not understand that until you experience it for yourself.

    More written books. And also no it does not.. untold millions have heard and read these same words and have no faith at all. What about people who can't read? Or the Blind? Or deaf? How do they find God?

    God has to be findable without a book.. or eyes or ears..

    Um..the Bible is available in Braille. And Christian missionaries are preaching the gospel to many through braille, sign language, radios, mp3 players, dvd's. The Bible is available in many languages and media sources. Is it the Gospel of Jesus that brings people to Him. They hear it, read it, see it. They heed the call of the Holy Spirit. His Word is how we can continue to draw close to Him and know His will.

    Love can never be inspired by threats... "love me or I will kill you" never got anyone anywhere. "Not only that but if your husband or wife don't also love me I will kill them too.. and if all your lovely 5 children that you prayed for and waited 25 years for, if they too don't love me I will kill them all as well".

    "Why? Because I love you.."

    God gave us free-will. We choose to love Him or hate Him. He merely warns us of what happens when we continually reject Him. He's told us from the beginning what path leads to what end. Why should we not be punished for rejecting the very One who gave us Life?

    Open your heart? How do you do that exactly? I was not even aware we could open or close our hearts. In fact we have no concious control over our hearts at all. Abstract madness.

    Wow. You obviously do not understand the spiritual side of things. Again, I am reminded of Pharoah...

    We can harden and soften our hearts too.. and well as open and close them? This sounds like impossible Ninja Spiritual Yoga.

    Boo! Yoga is Hinduism. I would never advocate that.

    Maybe this is the only part that makes some sense. But it requires God to ac,.. that's just what I want to experience. His actions in my life.

    And I keep asking you, how do you know He hasn't responded already? If you are waiting for some physical sign from heaven, you will not receive it because Jesus told us that in the last days that the world will recieve signs ("lying wonders") from Satan and the Antichrist and these will cause many to worship him (even atheists and Jews). The only "signs" a believer of God should look for are the ones concerning the return of Jesus.

    I was not referring to you in the above. Interesting though how you so eagerly promoted yourself to the special class of those writing about and preaching the "real real genuine true true truth". I think you may have missed my point.

    I was referring to the personal relationship one has with Jesus and the preaching of the Gospel. Do you not see the pattern here? If you want to call it "special class", go ahead if it makes you feel better. I prefer to be called a child of God, a friend of Jesus, though. "Special class" is JW terminology.

    I am hardly wicked and hardly adulterous. That is referring to a completely different type and kind of person.. Not people like Thomas at all... or me for that matter.

    You just manipulated scripture to suit your own purpose and motive. That right there shows me you do not quite have the truth at all and that you do not really understand the Bible.

    But how nice of you to equate my simple, logical natural, honest and sincere doubt to that of being a murderer of Jesus.

    No, I didn't manipulate Scripture. You just don't understand the difference in me talking about the physical or the spiritual side of things. Oh yeah, that's right. JW's and atheists don't believe in the spriitual side of things therefore they cannot discern spiritual things. Sorry, I did not make it clearer and that you misunderstood me.

    What atheists pretending to be my friend? Is posting a comment in a forum pretending friendship? In order for anyone to push me away from God they have to be right next to him. Atheists don't even believe God exits.. how can they push me away from what does not exist for them?

    No disrespect but I'm not sure that you are not here to bring me to God either.. you are here to bring me to 'your own personal idea' of God and what he is, what he feels, what he thinks and what he does. Remember that you are on at least your 3rd kind 'truth' already. 1. The one you lived your life by before the witnesses met you. 2. The one you lived by when you became and were at witness. 3. The one you are living by now. 3 times you have exchanged one truth for another. Now you want me to have faith, trust and confidence in what you say and again.. for the 3rd time.. it is 'the truth'.

    Will you stop being blind. They are ppushing you away from God and your eating it up like candy. Atheists may claim to not believe in God but their agenda says otherwise. What is the point of preaching an unbelief? Do you believe in leprechauns? Would you solely devote your life to preaching this unbelief and make sure to join forums in order to push this unbelief onto others? Atheism is a religion.

    Three times? Again you assume too much. I was a child when I was first introduced to the Watchtower religion. I don't think I had a religion as a baby... I followed the Watchtower because my mother wanted me to. Again, I was a child, both physically and spiritually. I did not know Jesus as my Savior until I turned 27.

    Are you too an angel of light?

    Read Matthew 12. Be careful of what you say to others. We are to try the spirits, yes, but you don't go around calling people workers of Satan until you know 100% for sure. I'm trying to point you in the direction of the Only Savior of the World, Jesus Christ. An angel of light will point you into another direction. Do not ever call me a child of this world. My Father is Yahweh, Jehovah, My King is Yeshua, Jesus, My Comforter is the Holy Spirit. My father is not the father of lies. Be careful where you tread.

    I will tell you the Gospel once more. Jesus, God manifested in the flesh, came to earth to take upon Himself our due and rightful punishment for our sins. He bore that punishent upon the cross and declared "It is finished." He rose again three days later. He ascended into heaven where He waits for the fulfillment of the times and will one day return. The gift of God is eternal life through faith in Jesus. This gift sits at the door of every heart of every man, woman and child. All we have to do is accept that gift. We can't earn our way or buy our way into heaven. We are saved by grace. Jesus came to save that which was lost, the sinners. "Ye shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free", "And if the Son shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed", Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Him.

    Please do not ask me to post my comments if all you are going to do is try to ridicule me. I believe we are done here.

  • Maranatha

    "I think Maranatha (Come Lord Jesus - we get it) and Givemejustalittlemoretime are related or friends. They arrived at the same time; we can only hope they both leave soon. DisMember, you are more patient than I. Maranatha and GMJALMT are the newly appointed FDS and GB. They and they alone have 'true' scriptural insight and a direct conduit to the big girl in the sky and her son (Come Lord Jesus - we get it). None of us had the 'lord' when we were Dubs, and no one on the planet has the lord now except for those two. And Perry. What about the nearly 1 billion Hindus? The 350,000,000 Buddhists? The 1.6 bilions Muslims, 24 million Sikhs, 14 million Jews? Any hope for them Maranatha? You are no different than the Dubs. Actually worse.

    How many of the 2.2 billion Christians really have the lord Maranatha/Perry/GMJALMT? The Dubs clearly don't, right? what about the following groups. do any of these REALLY have the lord?"

    Should I congratulate you on knowing what Maranatha means? I do not have any friends or relatives on this website. Unless, you are speaking of my brothers and sisters in Christ who may or may not be on here (I don't know). I may not know them personally, but someday I will. :)

    You hope we leave soon? So you can have this website all to yourselves? Atheists under the guise of a religiously named website...hmmm...

    Big girl in the sky and her son? Lol, are you talking about Marianism? I'm not a Catholic. And God is masculine.

    I know many people who have the Lord in their hearts! And you are right about JW's not having the Lord. The "Jesus" of Watchtower Theology is nothing more than an angel. Jesus is so much more than that.

    There is hope for all mankind, even for you and all those religions you mentioned. That's why we are commissioned to preach the gospel to all nations even under the threat of execution.

    No one can say for sure who in those religions have the Lord. A Pentecostal woman may know Jesus as her Savior but still remain in that religion due to various circumstances. Eventually those who do know the Lord will leave those religions.

    "And like the Dubs, GiveMe, Maranatha and Abe have pre-judged billiions of people to their death during their upcoming deliverance, including most Christians. I am quite certain if you scratch the surface just a tiny bit with those 3 you wiill find that they don't believe most X-tians are 'real' X-tians. I don't see anyone mad, just cutting through BS."

    After careful consideration of what one teaches and preaches, then you can tell who may or may not be a real Christian. Joel Osteen for example. Many call him a Christian but he definitely is not. He's a part of the Word-Faith movement and has said on several occasions that Jesus is not the only Way.

    Jesus said to not judge by appearances but judge righteous judgment (John 7:24). This means a careful discernment of all things, including oneself.

  • Maranatha

    Abe: You are right that what is happening in our age is indeed what Jesus spoke of concerning the end times.

    One prophecy that's fascinating is when Jesus said many would come in His name, declaring to be Him. We see people all over the world doing this! They are not claiming to be Buddha, or Allah or Confucious, or any of the Egyptian false gods. They are claiming to be Jesus! Even Shirley Maclain claimed to be God. :/

    And what many don't see is what's going on in the inside. What our government and the governments of the world are planning will indeed usher in the New World Order under the Antichrist. Even the entertainment industry is helping in all of this.

    The Illuminati is real.

  • DJS


    Pardon me if I have had my limit of having someone preach or proselytize to me. The last place I want to experience that is on a site like this. You of all people should understand, especially if you escaped the Borg's clutches as well.

    I have no tolerance for it. None. Nada. Zero. Having said that, if you or anyone else wish to spend your time in theist threads and OPs you won't have to deal with me. I avoid them, mostly out of respect but partially out of revulsion. GMJALMT, Perry and some other serious proselytizers routinely start or enter non-theist OPs to spread their vast knowledge of all things theist and Jesus. I mean, really, do you think I want Perry or any of the other hard-core theists telling me about global warming, evolution, the age of the universe, the big bang theory (unless it's the tv show) or anything else they don't know anything about other than what they can google? Really?

    And as for the Millenial, End-of-Time theology you, Abe and others preach: again, haven't we all had enough of that to fill several lifetimes? If that annoys me more than a bit shouldn't you understand??????????????

    It is a failed belief system to me, the atheists on this site and those leaning. There is nothing, NOTHING, that you can say or do to change that. Abe is absolutely certain the lord is coming soon (where DID we hear that before?). Perry is certain that Jesus is the way. GMJALMT (doubtful he is a fan of the '60s song or the group Chairman of the Board who sang it - more likely he is asking the 'lord' for more time to save lost souls such as me) tells me I never knew god and have no hope unless I submit to his Xtian theology. Oh, and the end is coming soon, where everyone but people like him will expire (where DID we hear that before).

    Considering our Borgian experiences, where barely educated individuals preached to us that only they had special knowledge and that we were in urgent times with the end coming soon and had to listen to them lest we die on the wrong side of the ark, cannot you understand why we aren't so touchy feely warm fuzzy???

  • Maranatha


    Your stance is perfectly understandable.

    What I dislike about this website is it's misleading name. I found it thinking it was a place where JW's discussed their beliefs and what not. I joined so I could possibly witness to the Jehovah's Witness about Jesus Christ our Savior. The Lord has called me to witness to them. But all I see here are atheists. I don't mind sharing points of view but I can't stand the blasphemy some people post. It's upsetting. Hopefully, you can understand my zero tolerance for that. :)

    LIke I posted to Dismember, I came here per request. I'm trying to help someone struggling with their faith, but there is only so much I can do. I wish I could do more him, for all of you, but I am finite. I am limited.

    I also understand your view of us having a millenia of the signs of the end times. But this generation is truly different. Israel began a nation in 1948 for the second time in history (a fulfilled prophecy). That is where you start from. Prophecies and fulfillment: increased knowledge, advances in transportation, the decay of morality, the senseless violence, the extreme weather, the technology to track every living being on the planet, the UN and Agenda 21, the State of the World Forum, the visions of Mary occurring and preaching a one world religion, the existence of the Illuminati (Freemason, Skull and Bones, Bilderberg Group), the government creating nuclear weapons and creating chemicals for bio-warfare (check out Lyme disease and Plum Island). All this has increased exponentionally and is increasing in intensity. I grew up in the 80's and stuff was a lot different back then. I remember when everybody had landlines and boomboxes, lol. Now we have tablets, smartphones, mp3 players and microchips.

    Those are just some of the things occurring. The Watchtower is right about it being near the end. But they have missed the interpretations of a lot of prophecies and seem to think they can predict the exact date of Armageddon.

  • Maranatha

    Do you guys know why the government is pushing for the removal of guns and trying to garner support from the masses? All these increased occurrences of shootings are not coincidences.

    Answer: So that they can enact Martial Law with as little resistance as possible.

  • cofty

    I joined so I could possibly witness to the Jehovah's Witness about Jesus Christ our Savior. The Lord has called me to witness to them.

    You can write anything you like but expect every assertion of fact you make to be held up to scrutiny. That's perfectly reasonable isn't it?

    As an atheist I don't recognise "blasphemy" as an issue. It's just a believer's way of declaring their dogma off-limits. If your god is omnipotent he can handle a bit of criticism without his minions taking offence on his behalf.

    You appear to be very afraid of practically everything.

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