Richard Dawkins defends “mild pedophilia,” says it does not cause “lasting harm”

by chrisuk 320 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

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  bohm

  blondie: What Dawkins has actually said is the opposite of what chrisUK and others claim he has said:

  “I am very conscious that you can’t condemn people of an earlier era by the standards of ours. Just as we don’t look back at the 18th and 19th centuries and condemn people for racism in the same way as we would condemn a modern person for racism, I look back a few decades to my childhood and see things like caning, like mild pedophilia, and can’t find it in me to condemn it by the same standards as I or anyone would today ,”

  and (as posted by MadGiant)

  … I cannot know for certain that my companions’ experiences with the same teacher were are brief as mine, and theirs may have been recurrent where mine was not. That’s why I said only “I don’t think he did any of us lasting damage”. We discussed it among ourselves on many occasions, especially after his suicide, and there was indeed general agreement that his gassing himself was far more upsetting than his sexual depredations had been. If I am wrong about any particular individual; if any of my companions really was traumatised by the abuse long after it happened; if, perhaps it happened many times and amounted to more than the single disagreeable but brief fondling that I endured, I apologise.
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  cofty

  still no apology from vindictivegirl or chrisuk?
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  KateWild

  still no apology from vindictivegirl or chrisuk?-cofty

  Asking for apologies is not really appropriate Cofty. If someone is sincere they don't need to be asked, if you ask for an apology it's not sincere. Do you apologise if someone asks for an apology Cofty? . . Kate xx
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  Focus

  That "child welfare" people have condemned Dawkins' words is not in any way conclusive. An industry has built up around the crime, and if there aren't a sufficiency of victims, some may be invented, or other remarks attacked. The industry needs to keep going and to keep the myriad of people involved in public or private sector employment.

  As a leading atheist rationalist, Dawkins has a long list of enemies who would love to take him down. I don't see any evil in his words. In order to judge him, these words do need to be read - and not another's spin on them.

  Remember how the WTS spins the Babble?

  I remain a fan of Mr Dawkins.

  __

  Focus

  ("Caution" Class)
• 

  KateWild

  I remain a fan of Mr Dawkins.-Focus

  And I do not. Kate xx
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  Focus

  Good!

  As we are not caught in the confines of Watchtowerinsanity, we do not all have to semi-blindly conform to the same beliefs "or else".

  A waste to agree on everything, too, IMO. A healthy difference of opinion, accompanied by tolerance and respect for the reasonable views of others, is much more productive and likely to result in happiness in life.

  I keep an open mind on most things, but not so open that the wind blows in one ear and out t'other. Hey, I have no incontrovertible proof that I exist.

  Here, the questions raised are complex. If we take it that "thought crime" is not a crime, then drawing the line is problematic.

  I know where I've drawn my own line between "right" and "wrong" - and it is drawn pretty harshly by me, to the extent that when merely showing friendliness to others' kids (having zero interest in kids in any, even remotely, sexual way) I consider whether it could possibly be misconstrued, let alone cause harm.

  Where do others draw the line? Where would I like them to? Where does society and the law draw the line? All good questions.

  I do say, and usually irrespective of ages, that where one party is in a position of authority over the other, to use that towards any sexual end is absolutely wrong.

  Where exactly did Dawkins go wrong, KateWild? Perhaps I missed something.

  Isn't it scandalous that the P.I.E. matter had been hushed up for so long? What a sick society in which we live...

  Asking for apologies is not really appropriate Cofty. If someone is sincere they don't need to be asked, if you ask for an apology it's not sincere. Do you apologise if someone asks for an apology Cofty?

  He has lost sight of Matt. 7:3-5. He started a thread calling for my shunning, if not banning, and then ran away when my friends and supporters began crawling out of the woodwork... I'm not holding my breath for an apology, either, hahaha. Life's far too short for all this nonsense.

  __

  Focus

  ("Fair" Class)
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  KateWild

  Where exactly did Dawkins go wrong, KateWild? Perhaps I missed something.- Focus

  I started a couple of threads a few things rattle my cage they are in these threads. He is just not my cup of tea, stubborn, conceited and arrogant come to mind. But hey like you said we are okay to have a healthy difference of opinion. Kate xx

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/266456/1/Dawkins-The-Greatest-Show-on-Earth#.U8ks_fldW8A

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/266516/1/Dawkins-Chapter-2-Dogs-Cows-and-Cabbages#.U8ktKPldW8A
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  OnTheWayOut

  Dawkins is welcome to his opinions but I agree with any child welfare group that condemns the stating of such dangerous things. It almost sounds like whatever "Uncle Chester" or "Father Creep" did was no big deal if they didn't actually commit full-blown sex acts. Dawkins cannot be sure others were not traumatized by the same actions or that others didn't get it worse because they were more "the type" desired than Dawkins.

  He did overstep in his statement. I can judge a creep of decades ago by my same standard of today. There's some validity in comparing caning to ignorance of yesteryear but not reaching in a child's pants to fondle.
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  rocketman

  if the term "mild pedophilia" appeared in JW publication, you'd all be screaming.

  To me, part of the problem is that Dawkins catagorizes pedophilia and says that there is a "mild" form. I think that is part of what is getting some people upset. Creating degrees of something like pedophilia is a slippery slope, just as creating degrees of slavery and racism.

  Also, I think we do judge actions in the past by our standards today. Don't we strongly condemn the slavery of Africans that occured here centuries ago? We don't try to explain it away by saying that the standards of that time were different, do we? No, we roundly condemn it based on our sensibilities and standards.
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  bohm

  rocketman: Creating degrees of something like pedophilia is a slippery slope, just as creating degrees of slavery and racism.

  isn't this exactly what the legal system does when it differentiate between inappropriate touching vs. various forms of sex with a minor?