Strike 3 for the elderette and me! (???) I never heard a JW talk SO much about Jesus!

by Faithful Witness 48 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Faithful Witness
    Faithful Witness

    Robert, You are right. I have a lot to learn, but I am learning a lot from her, and how to handle the manipulative tactics. (She's good).

    Crazyguy: EXACTLY! She even brought up the Lord's Prayer, where Jesus said, "Our Father in the heavens..." That would have been a great time for Jesus to tell us how to address God in prayer... and if it was translated to omit the name, wouldn't it have said "LORD in the heavens..." (all caps to indicate YHWH was removed).

    Apog: Thanks for the notes. I have so much to learn.

    Chalam: That is a great reference! I am taking a good look at that, and will definitely bring it up with her.

    lriddle: Yes, I am having fun with her. Too bad I don't have more time to spare. I have to cut back, but am leaning toward meeting twice a month for an hour.

  • LogCon


  • Zoos

    This is an extraordinary example of a JW's trained synaptic response.

    Matthew 6:1-5 was read to set the tone of the subject matter; Making a display of one's gifts to God.

    Questions were asked:

    "Why do you write down and keep track of all your work, then turn it in to be recognized by men? "

    "Why do you report your hours, if not for recognition?"

    Statement made:

    "GOD is keeping track... let's look here, it says..."

    There can be no doubt the flavor of the conversation has been established and yet when this simple question is asked, "What happens if you don't turn in a time card at the end of the month?", the notion implied is so incomprehensible that the sister couldn't wrap her mind around it.

    "They would just call me and get my hours from me. Nothing would HAPPEN!"

  • punkofnice

    Well done FW. Well done.

    Miss K said, "We aren't being glorified by men! We are not sounding trumpets and hollering on street corners! What I do for Jehovah's organization, I do out of LOVE. I am not compelled to do it. They don't force me to do it. I do it out of LOVE. I choose to do it."

    My answer to that is WHAT A LOAD OF COBBLERS!

    How long before they get hounded if they don't fill in their time sheet. How long before they are prevented from certain privileges. How long before their husbands are hounded by the CoBE or the CO? Not long!!

    It isn't 'LOVE' it's compulsion by guilt.

  • Faithful Witness
    Faithful Witness

    Re: the timecard:

    Miss K said, "You shouldn't be worrying about whether you will be turning in a time card. You might choose not to ever turn in a time card. You need to learn a lot more before you get to that point."

    I really try not to roll my eyes at her, as I know I tend to do. My mom taught me that was rude. I've changed my facial reaction to a sort of bug-eyed look, or a slight eyebrow twitch. I think I am going to start looking at Miss W when Miss K makes weird statements, and see if I can guage whether she is listening, or maybe send her messages... WAKE UP!

    NO! I am never going to turn in a field service report! WOW you have an inflated opinion of your persuasion powers. I told her I have already gone through and studied that entire yellow book. She said, "Well, it's possible that I will make some points that you have not heard before." (so true!)

    I got out my old copy of the Teach book, and notice that there are several places where I underlined things. It has been almost 4 years now, so I don't recall why I was underlining them now. The lines I underlined, are often the most alarming... such as "make a stand for Jehovah, and prove that Satan is wrong." or something like that. I can't believe I was almost sucked into this cult.

    THANK GOD FOR THE INTERNET! YouTube saved my family from the influence of this evil organization.

  • Faithful Witness
    Faithful Witness

    I don't remember if I mentioned this part of our conversation, and it just came back to mind. When I asked her about how much "fruit" she had produced from her door-to-door ministry work, she listed several people she had studied with, who had gone on to be baptized. Of course, neither of them mentioned how they had both forced their children to be raised in the cult, so there are a several more (as the 3rd generation of this family is also in the grips of the org). My heart was sinking, as I listened to her, remembering all the people she had brought "into the truth." (This woman needs to be stopped!)

    I made the comment that even though she had reached a few, it took a lot of "work" for them to reach people. 40 years of knocking on doors... "Do you think it's time for them to update their preaching methods?"

    She stopped and looked at me, and I repeated back a comment from Miss W, "You admitted, '99% of the time, we do not reach anyone.' Do you think the organization could find a more effective way to spread the kingdom message, if it is so urgent?... Why not advertise on TV or even YouTube, like the Mormons do?"

    Miss K came to life at that comment. She sat up taller, and her face got brighter, "We are about to start the GREATEST campaign yet! We will be promoting our website, JW.ORG, very soon. People may not be willing to talk to us, but they WILL visit a website."

    After her use of that video with me, "Why should we study the bible?" from the home page on Jehovah's website, I can see how this tool will actually be useful in the hands of an effective preacher like Miss K. She has practiced well.

    BUT - She obviously has not thought of the ramifications of using the internet to promote cult-think. Somehow, JW.ORG is going to have to convince interested people that their website is the ONLY TRUTH, existing on the evil world wide web. I might ask her about this again.

    How will you convince a householder, or just a casual visitor to JW.ORG that this is the ONLY website that has the truth about Jehovah's Witnesses? Don't you think it might be dangerous to send people to the internet, to find out about your organization?

    Are you practicing how to present JW.ORG, but somehow also tell them no other website about them is truthful?

    Have you REALLY explored and examined the information that is on the internet? How familiar are you with the actual history of the Jehovah's Witnesses?

    How will you explain away the teachings and writings of your founder, Charles Taze Russell, and the behaviors of Judge Rutherford? Why was the president of the organization, AFTER being appointed as the faithful and discreet slave, living in a palace and driving 2 Cadillacs, during the Great Depression? Have you ever seen the videos of Rutherford at Beth Sarim? Is that how God wanted his people treated by his faithful and discreet slave? It seems like this example really does demonstrate that he was not actually FEEDING God's people during that time (I assume JW's were hungry, along with the rest of the country... I guess it wasn't the proper time for the flock to actually EAT FOOD). Wouldn't it make sense that the faithful and discreet slave should have been almost perfect, if he had just been appointed by Christ? In Matthew 24, doesn't it say, 'If the Master finds him so doing...' How do you explain this, when someone finds it on the internet?"

    How will you warn householders to avoid websites like

    I really think the Watchtower is digging their own grave, by attempting to promote themselves on the internet. They have proudly printed millions of copies of their publications, changing doctrine and "adjusting their understanding" of the Word of God for over 130 years.


    They also managed to get in a statement, claiming that the Mormons don't have the requirement of going from door-to-door anymore. I might check that story with 2 young Mormons I keep seeing at the library.

  • Chalam

    "Chalam: That is a great reference! I am taking a good look at that, and will definitely bring it up with her."

    Glad to be of assistance :)

    Of course, the well trained JW will have a good reason to not actualy follow what is clearly written! I have come to the conclusion that they do not actualy believe a single word of the new testament. Take for example these verses which I read to the last two JWs at the door who had come to tell me about 'the Memorial'.

    John 6:52-54

    English Standard Version Anglicised (ESVUK)

    52 The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?” 53 So Jesus said to them,“Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.

    So I asked them if they had life in them and Jesus would raise them up on the last day? They said this was for the 144, 000 only. However, Jesus clearly is stating that those who don't partake of His body and blood spiritually or physicallly have no life in them, and will not be raised up at the resurrection to eternal life. I remarked they believe what the WT say rather than contrary to what Jesus stated. They said they are happy with the WT explanations rather than taking on Jesus' directive. JWs have exalted the WT above Jesus, and indeed the WT have set themselves up in the place of Jesus.


  • Pistoff

    Regarding door to door:

    "They also managed to get in a statement, claiming that the Mormons don't have the requirement of going from door-to-door anymore. I might check that story with 2 young Mormons I keep seeing at the library."

    I asked my brother why we still go door to door, mentioning that a bethel heavy said in the early 80's that if we dropped the preaching requirement we could increase membership much quicker.

    My question was: why not stop preaching if it will increase the membership? Is that not the stated goal, to increase membership?

    Would Jesus insist on fewer members just to keep up an out of date membership tool?

    They are so ideological they would rather keep the requirement of all members to proselytize, even if it inhibits the growth!!

    You can't make it up, it's so stupid.

  • Faithful Witness
    Faithful Witness

    There are a few purposes of the field service (non)requirement... mainly CONTROL:

    • They keep you from associating with worldly people or non-believing relatives.
    • They give you a "good" excuse not to participate in family activities (especially Saturdays).
    • They can indoctrinate you with even more JW memes (look at the vultures! The end is near!) and reinforce their own agenda.
    • To monitor your behavior, make you dress up on your day off.
    • Keep you so busy, you don't have time to do anything personal... and keep you off sites like this one.

    The same reason they make you do repetitive reading assignments and homework.

    Keep the outsiders OUT, and the insiders IN... that is the motivation for all the instructions. I just saw a clip of Ray Frantz, where he said something to this effect. The decisions made by the Governing Body are not directed by God, but by their own love of power.

    It is US against THEM! To a JW, it is JW's against the WORLD. To the Governing Body, it is GB vs JW independence.

    Have you seen the movie 1984? Keep repeating the same ideas, and the people believe it completely. "You are doing this out of love for Jehovah. You love working for the Kingdom. You are in the Truth. Endure to the end. It is so close now. Jehovah will deliver us."

  • designs

    Does trying to pin a JW on a verse in the Bible really work. Terry pointed out there are 4200 Christian denominations (I thought maybe around 1500) all interpreting verses differently.

    How do you go into a scriptural discussion with that kind of baggage. It almost becomes farce.

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