Don't miss the health care sign up deadline.

by FlyingHighNow 55 Replies latest jw friends

  • factfinder
    factfinder

    FlyingHighNow- thank you for your encouragement. I was very disappointed I could not complete the process through healthcare.gov yesterday and make the deadline.

    I will try for medicare again.

    I do not own my home. It belongs to my brother and sister. They will be selling the house soon, in a few months. My brother and his wife will be getting their own place. As of now I have no idea where I will go. I hope something will work out and my best friend will let me move in with him, wherever he ends up. (He will be splitting from his wife.)

    thanks for the info!

  • wannabefree
    wannabefree

    factfinder ... if you started the process they were planning on letting you continue past the deadline.

    FlyingHighNow ... It is certainly a step in the right direction, but for me personally, after credits my monthly payment would have been about $63 and I would have had a $6,350 deductible. So, I would have a minimum out of pocket cost of $756 per year plus would have to spend $6,350 on medical fees for a total of $7,106 annually before insurance paid for anything. Since my current medical costs have been under $500 in the past 20 years total, the fine seems like the best value for me at this particular time.

  • MeanMrMustard
    MeanMrMustard

    @FlyingHighNow:

    Sorry for a delay in response. I am pretty busy lately. Let me start at the end of your post and work backwards. You wrote:

    Millions of Americans are upset because millions of us want everyone covered with affordable health insurance and healthcare?

    Are we a nation of cold hearted barbarians? What neighbors, friends and family members are expendible, so we can pay a few dollars less in taxes?

    This makes it sound as if everyone must be favor of the ACA and more socialized medicine, otherwise they are "cold hearted barbarians". It is, in fact, just the opposite. Nobody wants people to go without healthcare. Or food, or clothing, or anything for that matter. Do you really think that those who oppose government programs have, as their motivation, a denial of a high standard of living to individuals? There are reasons why the ACA and other government programs are opposed.

    The medical market is just like any other market - food, clothing, housing, or paperclips. If you separate the consumer from the cost (by offering to pay for the product), the price of the care will necessarily rise. This is because neither the consumer nor the provider is getting correct feedback from the market through prices. From the perspective of the consumer, the price = 0, and it looks like an infinite supply. From the perspective of the provider, demand is way up, so these are signals to expand and raise the price. The ACA is "affordable" only in the sense that some people aren't paying for the medical care. The price is still being paid on the provider side, and the price will still rise. This causes those that do not have insurance to pay more because they are actually still attached to the price. Their stories come out as bankruptcies, and large bills as hospitals cost shift onto them (as in your cited book). It also causes those that do not qualify for subsidies to pay more. Somebody has to pay the higher prices, and the prices ARE going to go up. The nature of markets isn't going to change, anymore than the nature of gravity.

    Also, for those that get their care subsidized, where does the money come from? The rich, perhaps through high taxation? No. The rich have free will, and will simply raise their prices, or stop hiring, or actually lay off some employees, and more likely a combination of all these. So who really pays for it? Perhaps the money is borrowed? I'm sure the creditors will want to be paid back in the future. How is that sustainable since the cost of care will continue to rise? So who is really paying for it? Perhaps the money is just printed? Well, then inflation will take the value out from the poorest - since they have the least amount of assets that can act as a hedge. Inflation is hidden taxation, mostly on the poor. So who really pays?

    The problem is actually greater than just the cost at the provider level. The producers are also consumers in a sense - they buy the materials needed to provide their care. The price structure for these goods and services will also inflate. Eventually, it has to stop. The cost will be too high. At some point, there will be price controls and rationing put in place. The boom can't go on forever. The bubble can't inflate forever.

    Who pays when uninsured people use the emergency room for medical care and the bill is hundreds of dollars? What if they are admitted and need surgery and the bills run into the many thousands of dollars? Isn't it less expensive to use preventive care and to screen regularly, catch things early? Our republican governor fought hard to get expanded medicaid passed in our state, because as a former business man, even he could see how much more cost effective it is to insure people and give them timely medical care.

    "Republican" doesn't mean anything anymore. They are for exanded government too.

    Again, this is to ask: "How do we pay for this care?". I ask, "Why can't people afford the care on their own?" - or in other words, "Why is the price so high that people can't afford it on their own?" There was a time when people just went to the doctor without insurance, and paid for it. It wasn't a crippling expense. (see previous paragraph)

    Markets need less regulation (so that you don't have such high entry barriers to new providers - there needs to be competition), consumers need to be attached to the cost so that they shop around, and there needs to be a stable money supply. For decades we have had none of this. We don't have a market in health care, and that is the problem.

    MMM

  • MeanMrMustard
    MeanMrMustard

    @EOM:

    to mrmeans question, yes the healthcare industry is very wrong and corrupt. The profit is by unethical means and by hurting people than by helping people.

    I agree to this. But not to the notion that profit, in and of itself, (even in the field of healthcare) is unethical. Having employer based insurance was first created by government wage and price controls, and is perpetuated by giving employers tax incentives to continue to offer it.

    For example, our bodies are like machines, they require a certain amount of vitamins, amino acids, minerals, etc to function properly. A zinc deficiency can give you bad sexual side effects. A vitamin D deficiency will make you fatigue, etc. Almost all health problems are due to a deficiency or bad balance of nutrients.

    Yes, I do agree to this too.

    If you go to a doctor with a bunch of issues, logic would dictate that they would first run a complete nutrient panel to see if the symptoms may be due to deficiencies or overdoses in what your body needs just to function properly. But NOOO, not only will you have a hard time finding that, your insurance won't cover it either.

    Right, the doctor can change larger amounts doing things that the insurance will cover. There is clear motivation for the doctor to do things he/she shouldn't be doing.

    Also many people are allergic to foods and additives, etc, so logic would dictate having a food allergy test as well. Again, NO, insurance, etc, won't cover that.

    Hmmm, some policies might. But that is beside the point. Again, I agree.

    Why is that? Because the doctors will treat the SYMPTOMS NOT the cause. Why? Because if you identify the cause as a deficiency in a certain vitamin, you change your eating habits or get some cheap over the counter vitamins and you get better. The pharmacy companies would lose out on the pills they would prescribe for that.

    Under what scenario would the doctor be more likely to do the right thing? I would say when the doctor is financially accountable to the consumer.

    But it gets even better, the doctor then prescribes a pill instead of identifying the cause, and the pill has side effects, so you start off on one pill and end up on 10 pills to manage the side effects of the other pills.

    I agree.

    It still gets even better,,,,if you are taking psychological drugs, many of them will change your body and it will become dependent on them, trying to stop can be near impossible. Some take years to stop and suffer life long side effects.

    I agree.

    Why is there no cure for cancer? Because they make billions a year, they dont' want to cut off their money supply.

    I agree. But I have a feeling a cure for cancer might be a hard nut to crack, so-to-speak. But the question I would ask is: what environment provides the most potential for profit while at the same time being consumer oriented?

    If the healthcare industry was moral and not corrupt, then tests of vitamins and nutrients would be the starting point. If everything was checking out well there, then it would look into other matters.

    Perhaps. I don't have anything against this. We agree on many things.

    Also the FDA has allowed and continues to allow many foods, preservatives, additives, methods that are bad and dangerous and have bad long term side effects.

    Abso-freaking-lutely. For the big government crowd - how does that make you feel?

    So yes, the profit in the healthcare industry is wrong, the profit is tempting them to hinder and keep people sick to keep milking them for money. If the healthcare industry has their way, you will be reliant and live your whole life hooked on their pills.

    They can only have their way with the help of legislation. A market would curtail that.

    We agree on many things.

    MMM

  • GrreatTeacher
    GrreatTeacher

    Hmmm...seems like the "free market" is its own religion nowadays, complete with unrealistic expectations for personal salvation.

  • MeanMrMustard
    MeanMrMustard

    @GrreatTeacher: Now why would you say that?

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