Wheat/weeds parable defeats "organization' teaching

by Zoos 20 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Zoos

  In his illustration at Mathew 13: 24-30, Jesus made it clear that the wheat and weeds were to grow together until the harvest. This parable runs contrary to the concept put forward by the WT about getting out of the world and running to their organization for salvation.

  First of all, the parable says that the weeds will be gathered, bundled and burned first – THEN the wheat will be gathered into the storehouse.

  WT teaches that we need to gather up the wheat FIRST. Not only are they doing it backward, they are teaching that true Christians must isolate themselves inside a special ‘wheat’ organization, separate from the weeds. That completely defeats the point of the parable.

  A poster on Y!A made this comment:

  You would also notice in that illustration that Jesus clearly identified the field as being the world of mankind here on earth. Therefore removing the wheat from the field to the storehouse must symbolize removing Christians from the world of mankind - gathering them to heaven - the kingdom in which they will "shine as brightly as the sun". The storehouse cannot represent a restored true congregation *on earth* because being on earth is denoted by being in the field (Matthew 13:38,43)
  
  Also, you would notice that at the harvest time it is the weeds that are removed from the wheat and bundled. But JWs say the converse - that the wheat are removed from the weeds and put in a restored congregation of their own. If that were so Jesus' illustration would instead speak about the reapers collecting the wheat out from the weeds and transplanting them to a specially cleared corner of the field that free of weeds, to grow for a while before finally gathering them into the storehouse. That is how the JW interpretation would have to be pictured by the illustration, based on Jesus' own clarification of the symbols.
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  mynameislame

  My random thoughts after reading your post and those verses in Matthew

  The parable says that the weeds will be gathered, bundled and burned first

  ...

  they are teaching that true Christians must isolate themselves....

  Seems clear which group they are in then doesn't it?

  Then again, a few verses down Jesus said:

  47 “Also, the kingdom of heaven is like a net that was thrown into the sea. It gathered all kinds of fish. 48 When it was full, they pulled it to the shore. Then they sat down, gathered the good fish into containers, and threw the bad ones away.

  This time around the good product was separated out first or at least at the same time.

  In both cases it was the Angels doing the work not some earthly organization.

  In my opinion neither of those parables seem to indicate that the the bad fish and weeds would be the vast majority

  Finally Jesus asks:

  51 “Have you understood all of this?”

  “Yes,” they answered.

  We are still arguing over this today so I have a feeling that the diciples may have been a little quick to answer in the afirmative.
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  designs

  This shows Jesus is prejudicial and he considers humans as throw-aways.

  No wonder christianity is so screwed up.
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  Faithful Witness
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  kneehighmiah

  Some humans are wicked throw aways. hitler. Aaron Hernandez if found guilty. repeat child sex offenders. Serial killers. Etc
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  kneehighmiah

  People aren't wicked because they don't believe in 1914 or worship the gb. Or say no to a weirdo offering them an awake magazine when they're trying to sleep on a saturday morning
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  Apognophos

  Not sure I agree with the underlying premise of how this scripture is being read. The wheat and weeds are allowed to grow together. The separation takes place all at once. The fact that weeds are gathered first is only because you have to gather one or the other first. I don't believe this detail is significant. Jesus was simply saying that, 'on the day of the harvest' (vs. 39), 'the weeds will be burned with fire' (vs. 40-42) and 'at the same time, the wheat will be collected to heaven' (vs. 43). There's no end-time prophecy here. It's a description of the event of Judgment Day, a simultaneous separation of the good from the bad.

  mynameislame helpfully brought up the parallel illustration of the good/bad fish. Technically in that illustration the good fish are gathered first. Is the order significant here but not with the wheat/weeds?
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  eyeuse2badub

  ++++Apognophos+++

  I agree that "this detail is not significant" unless you are the WTBTS. They can pick the proverbial "fly poop out of pepper" when it comes to insignificant details if it in anyway supports their outlandish explanation of the Bible. How many toes did the image of Daniel have or not have and what does it signify?

  LOL

  Just saying!

  eyeuse2badub
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  Apognophos

  Yes, I agree. I had a little rant in there which I deleted before posting, about how fundamentalists (yes, JWs, you're fundamentalists, deal with it) think that every word of the Bible has deep significance. Meanwhile, they can totally miss the actual intended message of a scripture. It's amazingly similar to Jesus' criticism of the Pharisees and their gnat-straining.
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  Faithful Witness

  Here is the timeline that appears in the article of WT July 15, 2013, "Look! I am with you ALL the days."

  http://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/w20130715/jesus-parable-wheat-and-weeds/

  My husband and I visited for this WT study on September 8. We are bible students gone bad (decided not to join, but they don't shun us).

  The man at the podium kept referring back to this timeline... again and again... clearly it was scripted, along with a few of his strange remarks.

  He helped interpret the images. There are 2 figures depicted. Jesus is the Sower ("notice he is WHITE and STANDING UPRIGHT"). The Devil is the Enemy ("Notice this other SNEAKY GUY... he is BLACK and STOOPED OVER")

  Comments from the audience (elder's wife, who claimed to have knowledge of wheat farming in particular) were enlightening. Apparently, there is a particular type of weed that grows among wheat. "When you look out over a wheat field, the weeds are very easy to see. The wheat bends with the wind, but the weeds stand stiff and upright."

  Another comment from the audience (another woman): "We can see evidence of this in our modern day society. "Imitation Christians" stand upright and do not bend, but JW's are flexible and able to bend when things change." (convenient, since the wind was shifting dramatically that day!)

  These comments were made in response to the question:

  13. What does Revelation 18:7 reveal about the present attitude of the harlot, or Babylon the Great, including Christendom?

  13 Third, weeping and gnashing. After the angels bundle the weeds, what happens? Speaking about the condition of the weed class, Jesus states: “There is where their weeping and the gnashing of their teeth will be.” ( Matt. 13:42 ) Is that happening right now? No. Today, Christendom, as part of the harlot, still says about herself: “I sit a queen, and I am no widow, and I shall never see mourning.” ( Rev. 18:7 ) Indeed, Christendom feels very much in charge, even presuming to ‘sit as a queen’ atop the class of political leaders. Presently, those represented by the weeds are boasting, not weeping. But that is about to change.

  Revelation 18:7

  7 To the extent that she glorified herself and lived in shameless luxury, to that extent give her torment and mourning. For she keeps saying in her heart: ‘I sit as queen, and I am not a widow, and I will never see mourning.’

  (Just my 2 cents, but I've observed a lot of modern day JW's glorifying themselves and making claims about eternity for themselves)

  To summarize... "DID YOU GET THE POINT??"

  Interpretation from the podium ("Please refer back to the timeline"):

  • Jesus = standing tall and upright
  • The Devil = stooped over

  Additional interpretation from the audience (comments that were congratulated by the man at podium):

  • Weeds = stooped over
  • Wheat = standing tall and upright

  THE POINT: "Bend over! You are Wheat!" (which could mean:)

  • The wind is shifting, be ready to adjust yourself again.
  • Be ready to bend yourself in new ways. Instructions to follow. (grooming them)
  • If you are a faithful JW, congratulate yourself every time you bend with the breeze. Your abilitiy to adapt proves that you are Wheat.

  Many of the comments and remarks that were inserted by the conductor of the WT study, seemed scripted and sometimes awkward. He made a few strange hand gestures that didn't really fit, and the timing of some of his remarks was odd. I grew more and more suspicious as we kept listening to the comments being made, both from the podium and the same few people who kept raising their hands.

  I have come to believe that there is a lot more to these comments and remarks, than meets the eye. I think this explains why so many JW's seem to be confused about what they actually believe. They often can't find the answers in their literature, because the ideas and "understanding" was planted verbally. This is why meeting attendance and theocratic work are so vital to your spiritual health.

  Not only are you unable to understand the Bible without the aid of the Watchtower commentary, you are unable to understand the Watchtower, without the aid of instructions administered to you at the meetings.