Has a critical mass of exJWs been reached?

by truthseeker 52 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  done4good

  Good post, and comments.

  There will not likely be any large exodus or "sudden" collapse, (unless a major issue with negative publicity takes place). However, the long slow brain drain has been taking place at least since the late '70s and is picking up steam considerably in the last 20 years since the information age was consumerized, (i.e. the internet brought into the everyday user).

  Society's entire approach to information has changed. Even formal educational approaches are very different from what they used to be, (memorization, for example is no longer stressed, nor is an authoritative approach to sources, unless peer reviewed). People have learned to think critically for themselves, and in most cases, have learned to do so naturally, just by using information sources now available.

  marlu-BTW, one interesting phenomenon I see fairly recently are "demi-apostates". That is, people who are somewhat half-believing. They choose to stay in the org despite some major flaws they see, they think the WTS still has some/many things right, yet post on ex-JW forums without regrets. According to the WTS, such people shouldn't even exist. Goes to show that they're losing more and more control.

  Great point, and something I have observed as well. My approach with these types, (at least recently), has been to educate them about cognitive dissonance and let them connect the dots. It does get them thinking...

  The WT cannot healthily survive in this climate forever.
• 

  Phizzy

  Just a note on the thread title, there is a Huge "Mass" of XJW's, if it were not even more diffficult than herding cats, we could have perhaps have got some group effort at protest going, especially as it is 2014.

  That ain't gonna happen of course, because sensibly most XJW's just move on and get on with their lives, and good for them !
• 

  nonjwspouse

  Emeth

  guys look it up on this forum ... there are threads from 10 or more years back that said and predicted the same. In the meantime the witnesses added millions of extra publishers. Even in secular western countries their number remained the same or showed growth.

  The publisher requirements have dropped signifigantly since then haven't they? Is it growth or change in requirement reporting to present the statistics in a different way? How many are true numbers, and how many are "created" by persons handing in reports. I know in my area I used to see some JWs out every 4 moths or so , but now, it's every 6 years or so and even less. The growth in the JW have been mainly from forign countries with high povery rates, correct? The retention rate of JW is the lowest in all religions according to the PEW report.

  One congregation I know of specifically is merged with another, and this is happening all over. That isn't happening because of growth.
• 

  apostatethunder

  People that has been affected by this corporation, when freed tend to react very strongly against religion, puting them all in the same basket. In Catholic countries for example, many people don't practice their religion much or at all for whatever reason, but most would still defend the Church and respect believers despite all the propaganda against it. This is not the case with people that leaves cults, despite not being so much information in the media about them.

  This is something they probably count on, and they seem to encourage it. So, one can only wonder at the effect all the millions that have been negatively affected by the WT will end up having in our ever more secular society.

  Unfortunately this type of manipulation is not something exclusive of religious groups.
• 

  emeth

  @nonjwspouse

  seeing one congregation merging with another and then thinking you can explain how things are in all developed countries of the world does not make sense. Whatever your personal experience or knowledge is.. it never says anything about the overall situation on national and international levels.

  anyway all you have said does not take away the fact that on this forum several topics can be found (dating 10 or more years back) that predicted a serious downfall or even the end of Jehovah's Witnesses by now. But the fact is there are many more congregations, publishers biblestudies etc etc.

  Als your argument of changed requirements is not relevant and does not take away the fact that every year the number of publishers is growing more than 200,000 a year. Changed requirements would cause a new peak in the year things changed but would not be responsible for a sustained yearly growth of more than 200,000
• 

  ABibleStudent

  The WTBTS using BITE control to victimize JWs probably reduced the number of JWs more than online forums. IMHO most ex-JWs leave the WTBTS because of how JWs treat each other after getting dunked and feeling, as JWs, that they can never do enough to satisfy the WTBTS leadership. People respond better to praise than to more whipping.

  On-line forums that strictly discuss errors in WTBTS doctrines are less likely to awaken JWs because of the WTBTS's BITE control - "Evil Apostates". On-line forums that describe experiences of exJWs, while JWs, would probably have a more significant impact on JWs. A JW's authentic persona would relate to being depressed and/or badly treated by JWs, and start to wonder why do I put up with this and why would it change after the Big A.

  Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

  Robert
• 

  AlphaMan

  that means that they added about 500,000 biblestudies in the year 2013. That is about 100% more than the number of biblestudents added during 2012

  i am sure that they keep growing and that the internet wont change that ,. even not for a bit

  Ha......how many of those bible studies are JW's studying with their children where both the Father & Mother count the Watchtower publication brainwashing session? The answer is the vast majority of them are. Out of those children 70% will leave the JW cult asap. Of the remaining 30%, most of those will leave upon awaking to this bat-shit crazy cult.

  The publisher requirements have dropped signifigantly since then haven't they? Is it growth or change in requirement reporting to present the statistics in a different way? How many are true numbers, and how many are "created" by persons handing in reports.

  It use to take 1 hour of JW propaganda work to count a person on the records. Now it only takes 15 minutes to get counted. This evil Organization is not above falsely providing any numbers that put it in a better light. Very deceptive.....just like how deceptive they are keeping the wackier teachings & beliefs from new persons until they are brainwashed enough to accept them.
• 

  emeth

  @alphaman... please do the math, the vast majority cant be kids.

  there are 7.9 million publishers and 9.2 million biblestudies. average population growth is 1.2% -- The nr of biblestudies did rise with 500,000 in just one year (2013)

  Those 500.000 extra biblestudies in a year cant be their children due to population growth figures,... and the fact that a lot of those 8 million JW's do not have kids or cant get kids anymore (for example because of their age)

  also what you say about the nr of them leaving is complete non sense and contradicts your statement you made before when you said that the vast majority of those studying are kids, since the nr of JW's is growing every year with about 200-300,000 a year.

  You talk bat shit crazy shit
• 

  metatron

  I'd make several observations here.

  First, in honesty, many of us never expected that this fraud would continue this long. The only thing I can say in defense is that it is difficult to judge irrationality - and that's exactly what we're doing! How do you put an 'end date' on an organization that should have given up after their first of 130 years worth of false prophecy?

  Second, the hopeful thing is that the organization is stuck with ever deepening facade maintenance - there is outright rot everywhere but as long as pubs and bible studies increase, all is well for them. If they ever started losing publishers globally, it would be the meme that killed them.

  It is hard to believe that the GB never asks themselves, "What's the point of gathering ever weaker, ever more dependent, ever 'never open their wallet' publishers?"

  I would sooner tell a Witness something like, "i don't believe in God" before I ever said "the organization is dying". They cannot stomach the thought of their Organizational Idol being anything less then invunerable and invincible. It can't just decline in absolute numbers even if everything else decays notably.

  Finally, has anyone ever considered how cheap Witnesses really are compared to other religions? A new roof for a tall church or cathedral, reworked stained glass, some missions to support, paying the pastor a wage, etc. OMG, Witnesses are a joke! I've never seen a "true religion" that keeps cutting back so much!

  metatron
• 

  metatron

  I'd make several observations here.

  First, in honesty, many of us never expected that this fraud would continue this long. The only thing I can say in defense is that it is difficult to judge irrationality - and that's exactly what we're doing! How do you put an 'end date' on an organization that should have given up after their first of 130 years worth of false prophecy?

  Second, the hopeful thing is that the organization is stuck with ever deepening facade maintenance - there is outright rot everywhere but as long as pubs and bible studies increase, all is well for them. If they ever started losing publishers globally, it would be the meme that killed them.

  It is hard to believe that the GB never asks themselves, "What's the point of gathering ever weaker, ever more dependent, ever 'never open their wallet' publishers?"

  I would sooner tell a Witness something like, "i don't believe in God" before I ever said "the organization is dying". They cannot stomach the thought of their Organizational Idol being anything less then invunerable and invincible. It can't just decline in absolute numbers even if everything else decays notably.

  Finally, has anyone ever considered how cheap Witnesses really are compared to other religions? A new roof for a tall church or cathedral, reworked stained glass, some missions to support, paying the pastor a wage, etc. OMG, Witnesses are a joke! I've never seen a "true religion" that keeps cutting back so much!

  metatron