How Many Circuit Overseers And District Overseers Really Believe The Governing Body Is Really The Faithful and Discreet Slave and That The Watchtower Is God's Earthly Organization?

by frankiespeakin 41 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Oubliette

  bjc2read: It was felt that any loosening of control by the WTS would result in many Friends leaving, or the WTS itself losing credibility.

  Wrong. People already ARE leaving and the WT leadership HAS lost all credibility. They are simply in denial.
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  Magnum

  Apognophos - I understand what you're saying and don't entirely disagree. I do appreciate your input and will consider more what you said. Some may be as you described, but I still feel the same way. The batch I've been exposed to lately is not as you describe. I really don't mean to be disrespectful to them; but they are self-righteous punks to me. They don't have enough knowledge, experience, etc. to be carrying themselves the way they do. One is a moody, cocky, arrogant, Bethel & GB idolizing brat. He is clueless about org history, evolution/creation, basic biology, etc., yet will angrily & unreasonably defend the org and JW theology in his state of absolute ignorance. When I bring up questions that should make anybody think - questions that lead to answers outside his JW comfort zone, he gets a look of anger on his face. One of his fellow elders said he "hates the ministry". Yet he loves RBC work, Bethel work, etc. He idolizes COs and even city overseers.

  Another is such a sickening goody-goody that I literally can't watch him or listen to him at meetings. Oh, everything is so wonderul to him! He's just such an encouraging young elder! "Oh, hello, my brother, how are you this evening?" He's just embarassing. He's not real. The world is not that good to me; it's filled with horror and suffering. People are still being tortured (burned alive, boiled alive, stoned, crucified, etc.). Animals are being tortured (cats boiled alive, coons skinned alive, cats put in microwave ovens alive, etc.). These young punks just walk around with those glued-on smiles when they should be crying. The brother just mentioned, too, gives indication of not wanting to do the "dirty work", the ministry, but he loves all the glory stuff.

  These guys are idolaters whether they realize it or not. If there is a creator and he is using the JW organization, then that org is at best a tool. It's something that should aid in the worship of the creator. However, to many, like these punks, the org itself has become the main focus - an object of worship - an idol. During CO visit weeks, these guys are only thinking about that man - the CO; their minds aren't on Jah that week. They're wanting to please that man and score good points with him. It sickens me. I refused to even go to meetings during the last CO visit because it so nauseates me.

  To me a punk is someone who puts himself in a situation that he's not qualified for and thinks he's a big shot. That describes these guys that I've been exposed to. If I come across some genuine ones who are not org idolaters, who really seem to love God & fellow creature and are really concerned about the plight of their fellow creatures and not climing the glory ladder, I'll acknowledge it because I am fair, just, and honest.

  I'm also open to the possibility that I might be at least partially wrong, so again, I will consider your point of view.
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  arimatthewdavies

  some do and some dont. but here is whats important all jehovahs wittnesess that want to stay jehovahs wittnes

  submit to that idea at least publicly...they do so because they are more interested in makeing jesus and jehovah

  known by going door to door than they are interested in what man thinks he is greatest over them! now if

  only they would start preaching a simple bible gospel at the door! guys and ladys jehovahs wittnesses have sure got

  more litterature and media about how to serve god than JEHOVAH GOD himself! yes they have enough books and tracts

  and videos and cds and downloads to keep you from any form of ignorance about jehovah! the circuit and district overseers

  beleive what they are preaching in my opinion...and the doctorine that jehovahs witnesses contains everything that

  you need to find your way to jehovah and jesus and start thinking like jesus, evan though their are points that

  need improvement....
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  Apognophos

  Well, I didn't mean to disagree with what you were saying, exactly, Magnum; I was just agreeing with the sentiment without going so far as to say that they were punks. So I decided to present their actions from another standpoint. (I also don't know the guys you know, either, or I might agree to call them whatever names that you want.)

  Anyway, however you look at it, this doesn't excuse them for putting the organization above everything else.
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  kneehighmiah

  It's well known amongst the friends that MTS usually cranks out the biggest self righteous Pharisees imaginable. Mts does nothing to make its graduates more like Jesus. They often come back feeling better than all the average brothers. not all MTS grads are like this, but many of them are the young ladder climbing, man worshiping type most people dislike. They idolize organizational big shots and look to score points so they can get district level convention parts. They will defend the org to the death and know everything about organizational procedures but little about the bible. If they actually studied the bible like I finally did they would quickly see how wrong some teachings are.
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  Magnum

  kneehighmiah - I'm glad to hear that others have noticed that about MTS. Your words ring so true. MTS does seem to a large degree to be a Pharisee training course. I agree with you that not all students come out as Pharisees, but most I've seen have.

  Mts does nothing to make its graduates more like Jesus. They often come back feeling better than all the average brothers.

  I've noticed the same thing. I remember a little over fifteen years ago when we had an MTS grad in our area. He invited one of his classmates to our cong to give a public talk. It was disgusting. I remember driving into the Kingdom Hall parking lot and seeing a shiny black luxury car parked diagonally taking up two spaces (I guess so nobody would ding the doors). It was parked close to the entrance taking up prime spaces. Knowing he was coming, I figured it must be his car (I was right). When I got inside, I saw him. He was dressed in cutting edge fashion - very flashy. His talk was very flashy and showy - not with a genuine, serious, loving tone. It seemed to be more entertaining than spiritual. The whole atmosphere was disgusting. He was showered with attention like he was a celebrity and he carried himself as a celebrity.

  I respect people who have the ability to recognize what you said about MTS. To me people like that are discerning & genuine & inclined towards righteousness. In the vision of Ezekiel chap 9, the man with the inkhorn was told to mark those who were upset over the detestable things done among God's people. If JWs are God's people, then I think that might have an application among them today. Maybe those who recognize wrongs such as behaving like Pharisees, idolatry within the org, wrong teachings, etc. are marked in a good way. Maybe there's going to be a major sifting/cleansing among JWs. That's just conjecture. Right now I'm seeking and searching and trying to find answers. I really don't know what to belieive right now.
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  Vidiot

  Magnum, this guys sounds like prime WT heirarchy material.

  He's gonna go far.
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  frankiespeakin

  You can't have a Corporation running on delusions of grandure and not expect repercusions of disinchantment/disloyalty among the CO and DO officers who are being sent to pasture once they hit retirement age and are left with a shitty pension for their loyalty to the corporation's causes. The word is getting out about how cruel this new batch of GBs/F&DSs really is and it is effecting the ranks.

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pension

  nited States [ edit ]

  Public pensions got their start with various 'promises', informal and legislated, made to veterans of the Revolutionary War and, more extensively, the Civil War. They were expanded greatly, and began to be offered by a number of state and local governments during the early Progressive Era in the late nineteenth century. [citation needed]

  Federal civilian pensions were offered under the Civil Service Retirement System (CSRS), formed in 1920. CSRS provided retirement, disability and survivor benefits for most civilian employees in the US Federal government, until the creation of a new Federal agency, the Federal Employees Retirement System (FERS), in 1987.

  Pension plans became popular in the United States during World War II, when wage freezes prohibited outright increases in workers' pay. The defined benefit plan had been the most popular and common type of retirement plan in the United States through the 1980s; since that time, defined contribution plans have become the more common type of retirement plan in the United States and many other western countries.

  In April 2012, the Northern Mariana Islands Retirement Fund filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection. The retirement fund is a defined benefit type pension plan and was only partially funded by the government, with only $268.4 million in assets and $911 million in liabilities. The plan experienced low investment returns and a benefit structure that had been increased without raises in funding. [24] According to Pensions and Investments, this is "apparently the first" US public pension plan to declare bankruptcy. [24]

  Current challenges [ edit ]

  A growing challenge for many nations is population ageing. As birth rates drop and life expectancy increases an ever-larger portion of the population is elderly. This leaves fewer workers for each retired person. In almost all developed countries this means that government and public sector pensions could collapse their economies unless pension systems are reformed or taxes are increased [dubious – discuss] . One method of reforming the pension system is to increase the retirement age. Two exceptions are Australia and Canada, where the pension system is forecast to be solventfor the foreseeable future. [citation needed] In Canada, for instance, the annual payments were increased by some 70% in 1998 to achieve this. These two nations also have an advantage from their relative openness to immigration. However, their populations are not growing as fast as the U.S., which supplements a high immigration rate with one of the highest birthrates among Western countries. Thus, the population in the U.S. is not ageing to the extent as those in Europe, Australia, or Canada.

  Another growing challenge is the recent trend of states and businesses in the United States purposely under-funding their pension schemes in order to push the costs onto the federal government. For example, in 2009, the majority of states have unfunded pension liabilities exceeding all reported state debt. Bradley Belt, former executive director of the PBGC (the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation, the federal agency that insures private-sector defined-benefit pension plans in the event of bankruptcy), testified before a Congressional hearing in October 2004, "I am particularly concerned with the temptation, and indeed, growing tendency, to use the pension insurance fund as a means to obtain an interest-free and risk-free loan to enable companies to restructure. Unfortunately, the current calculation appears to be that shifting pension liabilities onto other premium payers or potentially taxpayers is the path of least resistance rather than a last resort."

  Challenges have further been increased by the post-2007 credit crunch. Total funding of the nation's 100 largest corporate pension plans fell by $303bn in 2008, going from a $86bn surplus at the end of 2007 to a $217bn deficit at the end of 2008. [25]
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  frankiespeakin

  And let us not forget about the multimillion dollar lawsuits that these COs and DOs are finding out about and how the Governing Body has neglected their fudiciary duty toward the innocent children molested. That has got to really lower moral among these officers/COs&DOs serving the GB.
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  bjc2read

  This is an update...

  This link shows the Governing Body has serious problems with people in-the-know, JWs at the top level of authority, at Bethel. All we have to do is just "connect the dots."

  See below:

  This was just posted [a day ago] on JW.Net...

  See Link: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/276118/1/The-Last-BOE#.UyY4x6hdWSo

  Quote:

  This is the last BOE we will be able to provide. Our informant or source, was caught, disfellowshipped, and thrown out of Bethel. We knew that sooner or later the Watchtower would find him out. Well, we have done the best we could. The BOE emailing list will now be deleted. Perhaps someone else will be able to provide the documents that expose so much about the Watchtower. . . .