Don't Miss the Meetings - Hebrews 10:24, 25 Re-examined

by Oubliette 40 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Oubliette
    Oubliette

    I recently got an unsolicited lecture from a well-intentioned but nevertheless misguided JW friend. The gist of it was that I needed to go to all the meetings or I would miss out on "everlasting life."

    I responded that I do not need to go to meetings to have a relationship with God. The predictable response was, "I could show you a million Watchtowers that say you do!"

    I naturally concurred, saying, "I'm sure you could. But can you prove that from the Bible?"

    After an awkward silence, my friend predictably went for the JW "go-to" scripture about Meeting Attendance: Hebrews 10:24, 25. I responsed, "Of course. Why don't you read it again and tell me what it actually SAYS, and not what you think it MEANS."

    • And let us consider one another so as to incite to love and fine works, not forsaking our meeting together, as some have the custom, but encouraging one another, and all the more so as you see the day drawing near.

    Of course JWs believe this verse is an injunction to meet at the Kingdom Hall several times a week for their regular indoctrination sessions. But it simply does not say that. According to the rNEW, it DOES say Christians should be "meeting together" but it does not proscribe when, where or how often. (The previous NWT read, "gathering of ourselves together." That's different, no?)

    What about the cross-references? What light do they shed on the subject? Let's look:

    In the rNWT there are two marginal references next to the phrase "meeting together." They are:

    • Deuteronomy 31:12: Gather the people together, the men, the women, the children, and your foreign resident who is within your cities, in order that they may listen and learn about and fear Jehovah your God and take care to carry out all the words of this Law.
    • Acts 2:42: And they continued devoting themselves to the teaching of the apostles, to associating together, to the taking of meals, and to prayers.

    Note: the previous NWT had two more cross references, but they don't help either.

    First, although the scripture at Deuteronomy does in fact contain a "command" for all of Israel to "gather together," a quick perusal of the context shows that this was to be done once every seven years! (Deut. 31:9-12). It simply does NOT support the WT's cult practice of multiple weekly meetings. It just doesn't.

    What about Acts 2:42? This, of course, is part of the account of the unique events at Pentecost. When a person reads the verses for what they say without trying to impose on them any pre-existing ideas, a clear picture emerges of a group of people spending time together in a variety of activities. Included in this is the "taking of meals," which as verse 46 points out was in different, private homes. These people were excited to spend time together and they did it because they wanted to, not because they felt some sort of obligation. Either, way, it was a unique situation that in no way set a precedent for a religious requirement of multiple meetings every week. And the context most certainly does not suggest that when Christians lived their normal lives that they were "spiritually weak" and subject to death from God for not "going to the meetings." This idea just is not in the Bible.

    Again, the previous NWT did not say "meeting together," but said "gathering ourselves together." Here is another example of the GB/New World Translation Committee changing the scriptures to try and support their pre-existing beliefs.

    All this being said, my friend continued to try and press the idea that I could not have a relationship with God if I didn't "go to all the meetings." I said, "One word, Cornelius."

    I then explained, that like Cornelius, I had a relationship with God thirty years ago before I became a JW. When I was disfellowshipped for several years, I rebuilt my spirituality and my relationship with God brick-by-brick, trowelling the mortar by myself. I do NOT need to go to any meetings to have a relationship with God!

    She said, "Are you saying we don't need to go to the meetings?"

    Now, not wanting to be branded an apostate, I hedged. "No I did NOT say that. Please do not put words in my mouth or misconstrue my words. I simply said that I do not need to go to meetings to have a relationship with God. No one does. That's what the Bible teaches."

    I then said, "Look, this is obviously upsetting you. Why don't we just drop it for now." And so we did.

    - - - - - - -

    BTW, the two other verses that used to be used as references in the old NWT also do not support the WT/JW teaching on mandatory meeting attendance:

    • Matthew 18:20 - Jesus: "For where there are two or three gathered together in my name, there I am in their midst."

    You only need 2 or 3 Christians for Jesus to be "present." No specific directions as to time, place, frequency or manner of gathering.

    • Acts 20:8 - So there were quite a few lamps in the upper room where we were gathered together.

    This is the account in Troas where Paul gave a speech that apparently was so long and so boring that a young man fell asleep and fell out of a window:

    • Acts 20:7, 9 - On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to have a meal, Paul began addressing them, as he was going to depart the next day; and he prolonged his speech until midnight. ... Seated at the window, a young man named Eu′ty·chus sank into a deep sleep while Paul kept talking, and overcome by sleep, he fell down from the third story and was picked up dead.

    Again, this was a one-off situation, in a private home where everyone was gathered for a meal.

    In summary, when we read the Bible for what it actually says, instead of trying to interpret it to support what we think it means, a very different understanding often comes to light.

    BTW, don't forget to incite to love and fine works!

    And whatever you do, no long-winded speeches before dinner!!!

  • leaving_quietly
    leaving_quietly

    The phrase "relationship with God" does not appear in the scriptures, either. In fact, the only two places the word "relationship" appears are talking about Christ. (Col 2:11 and Col 2:12)

    There's an interesting writeup about this over at http://www.wickedshepherds.com/ForsakeNotTheAssembling.html (this is not related to JWs at all, but I was researching Heb 10:24, 25 because JWs say this is a "command", but there's nothing in there to suggest a commandment. I wanted to see what scholars had to say and came across this writeup.)

  • losingit
    losingit

    Thank you!

  • QueenWitch
    QueenWitch

    great points

  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW

    .

    ................If the meetings are so important..

    Why did the WBT$ axe the Most Important Meeting of all..

    .............................................................................................................I Hate That..

    ............The Book Study held in Private Homes??!!.................................Effin Dog!!..

    ................

    ....................................................................................... photo mutley-ani1.gif ...OUTLAW

  • steve2
    steve2

    I love it when the Witnesses hammer that text in Hebrews whilst their own organization has removed one of the weekly meetings, especially the part of the text where believers are enjoined to do so all the more as the day draws near. The organization has done the exact opposite which means the day cannot be drawing near.

  • EdenOne
    EdenOne

    The 1st century christians did meet ONCE a week... on sunday evenings. But it was a meal+symposium gathering.

    Eden

  • Bobcat
    Bobcat

    I posted some reference material regarding Hebrews 10:24, 25 on this post. It is towards the latter part of my post.

  • jam
    jam

    What is so funny about those verses is that the average JW

    is cluess in confessing their hope and exhorting one another.

    Who are the ones that really pay attention at the meetings??

    Who are the ones who understand what is been taught??

    Who are the ones that can explain the overlapping generation,

    the new light on GB members (slave class)??

    Surprise, you folks here, you folks that are still trapped in the

    borg. You are the only ones that understand and can explain

    the new light. Ironic I must say. LOL

  • Laika
    Laika

    I rarely missed meetings, but I also didn't tend to listen much once I was there as I got bored and my mind drifted. Post-meeting I used to wonder whether this would count when it came to judgement day.

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