by spectromize 70 Replies latest jw friends
Dear larc,
I think you are misreading what I'm tryin to say thru my posts. I am not the judge of you people here. I'm only bringing out what the Bible say's as a reminder that Jehovah's day will come as a thief in the night. If you feel uncomfortable about that, then I believe you have a serious problem. It will be the grandest time in human history. Finally after the battle is over, true peace and security will exist for the peoples of the earth.
Spec, it's true that Jehovah's day will come like a thief in the night. It is also true that He loves His children. It is also true that He does not keep track of timeslips and WT magazines placed. He reads hearts.
I have in the past, and am still striving now, to act in a way that is pleasing to Him. I know from my own experience that being pleasing to Him does not involve membership in a religious publishing empire.
If you feel uncomfortable about that, then I believe you have a serious problem.
You are taught, as many other JWs are taught that to be in God's favor, you have to be part of a man-made organization. Whether they are directly taught this or it is an inferred assumption is irrelevant. It is STILL locked in their mind.
So, when a JW finds that a fallible organization presents itself as the sole representative of God, then he/she may even come to the conclusion that God himself is a farce.
Yet there are other people who have not come to that conclusion, and direct their malice toward the accusers (i.e. you). Unfortunately, your mental parallel of WTS as God's only channel to mankind assumes (erroneously, IMO) that they have denounced God, instead of just your man-made organization.
There is a difference you know.
Many of those who are "scoffing armageddon" as you say are scoffing it because they were given all the answers in a nice package that later fell apart. Now they are confused about EVERYTHING they were told (What is true and what is false?). Another devistating aspect of leaving high-control groups such as yours. The folks who followed the Worldwide Church of God know exactly what these ex's are talking about. They went through the same experiences.
Do a search on the web for "Worldwide Church of God" and go to one of the sites that are against them. When you read the testimonials and say to yourself: "Boy, they were never God's mouthpiece in the first place, how silly!" You will then understand why some folks are bitter and confused, just as the members of that church were before the "shakedown" that dropped their baptized membership from 1 million+ down to 50,000.
You say that you are not the judge. This is true. Unfortunately, your "reminder" is very judgemental, especially under the auspices of something being wrong with people on this board for not "heeding" the warning you putforth.
And I could say that you are missing Larc's entire point, but perhaps you just don't understand it. (Remember, he WAS a JW before).
Do yourself a favor and stop assuming that everyone who does not share your point a view is a follower of satan. That mentality, and the behavior that it produces is insulting in itself to those who know better. It is also judgemental on your part. Being judgemental is not a problem, but when you turn around and say that you are not the judge, it is a bit hippocritical.
Such mechanisms are unnecessary on this forum as this is a DISCUSSION forum, not a bunch of "worldlings" who you are trying to convert.
Having said this I also understand that this may be hard for you to do since you are trained to gain members through casual conversation.
If you forgive our shortcomings, we will forgive yours.
Edited by - ianao on 16 February 2001 14:26:15
Spec,
You mentioned that we are living in a grand time. My mother's four aunt's became JWs in the 1920's. They thought it was a grand time too. They are all dead. My mother became a JW in 1944 at the age of 22. She thought it was a grand time. She's dead. When I was 19, I told my JW buddies that I was going to college. They told me that Argmageddon would be here before I graduated. They are all grandparents now. Your religion has had a sense of ugency for over 120 years now. However, for someone your age, history is not given much credibility either inside your religion or outside of it.
As I pointed out and as Ianoa got, but you didn't, there is no point in getting all worked up. Suppose you knew for a fact that end was coming in 30 days. So what! Would you be a better person for thirty days so you could fool God into letting into Paradise? I think people should do their best, whether or not distruction is on its way. It doesn't affect my life and it shouldn't affect yours either. I think that you basicly believe the following: God loves you and if you don't believe it he'll kill you.
By the way, you probaly also believe that you, yourself, can never to quiet enough to curry Jehovah's favor. Ever get that feeling down deep inside. Many Witnesses do.
Spec,
Thanks for the warning. I understand that your belief system requires you to warn all non-believers. You seem to have decided to follow the biblical interpretations of one religious organization in order to find a path to Jehovah. That is your right and I wish you well. I happen to believe that I have a personal relationship with God that doesn't require an "interpreter". I believe God will personally guide ANYONE who asks Him to. If you've been guided to the WTBTS and have complete faith in them, then be happy. May I ask what guided you to this forum?
Dear thinker,
What guided me to this forum is my search for more truth. I like this forum because people are a little bit more civil. Also there are some here who still have an interest in what the scriptures have to say.
Dear larc,
I can understand and relate about how we can get worked up about the end certainly wether we knew if it came in 30days or many years would not change the fact that that day will be here.
If we are priviledge to survive into the new system of things it will only be by God's mercy upon us, for we are all sinners and in need of help. So again please don't make the mistake that I'm here to judge you people but I simply want to talk about spiritual things and things that can help each other attain the goal of being a good person before God and what His definition of good is.
Dear Spec,
Thanks for your reply. Concerning "the end", I'd be interested in your view of the "generation" quote. "Truly I say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur. " (Matthew 24:34 NWT)
What is your understanding of this scripture? What does the Watchtower currently say about the "generation"?
thinker
***Could not an almighty God resolve the problems of puny man without resorting to slaughter. As he is supposed to have created man, woman and the Devil one would assume he shared some of the responsibility for the mess he has made of things. ***
Well said.
Doesn't it strike these doomsayers, that the Almighty Creator who would surely understand....man's weaknesses, heavy baggage inherited from our ancestors, brain qwirks, abuse, poverty, and all that we helpless humans have endured....to be reason in itself to not act in such a 'facist' way? I just don't get it.
Of course they (fundies)will have umpteen scriptures to point to...supposedly proving that the above statement is made by someone without sprituality. Bullpucky I say...they are the ones without true insight regarding the Creator. Presumption and man inspired doctrine starting way back with CT Russell...Mr. Pyramid...the WTBS continues the cycle of mindwarping 'doublespeak'. They are deluded and braindead.
DannyBear
Larc-- here is a nice post that SUMS up the need to keep the Sense of Urgency up--
*************************
by N.H. [Pravo] on January 13, 2000 at 00:35:24
{z0Q.VYic9wMNeo5UWiLAX.sgIvMbfw}:
"A sense of urgency"
The above phrase is one of the most cherished in the Watchtower's huge
arsenal of tools for manipulation. It is used to work the average Jehovah's
Witness into a sort of frenzy and keep them there. This is of the outmost
importance for the Watchtower Society leaders. Many Jehovah's Witnesses
has spent their entire lives in this state, hoping and longing for the promises of
the Watchtower to come through, only to die of old age after a wasted lifetime
peddling worthless books and magazines, which sometimes is outdated before
the ink in them is dry.
Lets take a closer look at the use of this phrase in the Watchtower literature. A
search of the CD ROM show that the phrase had its beginning in the sixties:
"Time is fast running out. We may not be slothful nor may we
procrastinate if we would keep clean from the blood of all men. Truly,
woe is us if we do not take advantage of every opportunity to warn all
we can. Let us give the warning with earnestness and intensity, yes,
with a sense of urgency as though this were our last time to warn our
hearers. Who knows how soon this actually will be the case?"
Watchtower, October 1. 1960, page 608
"Franz went on to explain that the remarks of the speaker were
perfectly sane, for God's Word foresaw the end of World War II, and
following it a postwar peace that would not last. "Now, here we are,"
Franz continued, "in the twenty-first year of this peace since World
War II, and the prediction is that this peace will not last. . . . It should
fill you with a sense of urgency," Franz told the students, "to realize
that the sands in the hourglass up above are running out, and the time
is coming to a close for this work that has to be done before this peace
ends." Watchtower, April 1. 1966, page 195-6.
Yeah, sure. Like countless other doomsayers Franz is now pushing up daisies.
All of them making it a lifetime career showing their insanities down other
people's throats. Their "sense of urgency" proved to be little more then a
fantasy, and a very sick one at that. In the end of the sixties, when the year
1975 got the attention this phrase was beginning to get more use:
"They Feel the Urgency
One of the most outstanding proofs of the growing sense of urgency
among God's people is the number of persons who arranged their
affairs to spend their full time in the preaching work regularly or for a
vacation period. This past year over 10,000 more than during the
preceding year enthusiastically took up this work. This meant many
sacrifices for mothers, fathers, young ones and older folks."
Watchtower, February 1. 1969. Page 93-4.
"They Are Acting on What They Are Learning
But when they were told about the new six-month Bible-study
arrangement, they were visibly touched. Now for the first time a real
sense of urgency struck them. They could not bear the thought of
having all connections with Jehovah's people severed. So they sent a
letter of withdrawal to the Baptist church because they knew that they
were not being taught the Bible's truth there. They began attending all
the Bible meetings of Jehovah's witnesses and sharing with others the
things they learned."
Watchtower, June 1. 1969, page 347.
"What so amazed the onlookers?… It was the sense of urgency that
motivates them.
That sense of urgency stems from the knowledge, gleaned from the
Bible, that soon now, not many years hence, Jehovah's judgment
against a wicked system of things on earth will be executed."
Watchtower, February 15. 1970, page 121.
"There is need to participate in that work with a sense of urgency,
too, for the end of this wicked system of things is drawing near. The
time is short. The harvest is great and the workers are few."
Watchtower, July 1. 1973, page 405.
"They feel a sense of urgency as they talk to people, for they look
upon the short time remaining for this system of things as a time of
Jehovah's exercise of patience, knowing that he does not desire the
death of anyone." Watchtower, October 15. 1974, page 631.
"Working Night and Day" to Make Disciples
JEHOVAH'S organization works with a sense of urgency. There is a
job to get done."
Watchtower, Mach 15. 1975, page 177.
After the 1975 failure the "sense of urgency" was shelved until 1978-79. After
1975 several hundred thousand left the Watchtower Society and the remaining
showed a tendency towards leading a normal life. Of course Jehovah's
Witnesses can't be allowed to have a normal life. People living normal lives
don't peddle worthless literature door to door, so here we go again:
"Many would lose the sense of urgency and fail to keep wide awake.
We could easily become fully occupied with the normal pursuits of
daily life. Surely in this we must learn how to look at things from
Jehovah's viewpoint and try to appreciate how he counts time,
keeping in mind Peter's words: "But the end of all things has drawn
close. Be sound in mind, therefore, and be vigilant with a view to
prayers."-1 Pet. 4:7; 2 Pet. 3:8, 9."
Watchtower, April 15. 1979, page 24-5.
Unbelievable isn't it? They actually tell the R&F that they shouldn't under any
circumstance, "become fully occupied with the normal pursuits of daily life",
amazing, isn't it? In other words, being normal people isn't anything for a real
Jehovah's Witness.
It is quite amusing to notice the completely weird argument for this kind of
strange thinking and worldview, they are quoting a man who was also waiting
in vain for some imaginary deity to perform some imaginary act almost 2000
years ago. The example of Peter does in reality show us how utterly hopeless
this whole idea is. But of course, there will probably be a lot of idiots still
quoting this same text 2000 years from now, with "a sense of urgency".
"Could it be that we are living in a "dream," asleep to the reality of
the changing world scene, perhaps spending too much time and money
in pursuit of material interests? Even as a dreamer has no sense of
time, have we also lost the sense of urgency of the times in which we
are living?"
Watchtower, March 15. 1979, page 30.
It is Jehovah's Witnesses who really do live in a dream, totally asleep to the
realities of the world scene. The only urgency any Jehovah's Witness should
feel is to get out of the weird world they live in, and start getting a life. Now,
after the 1914 "rubber band" generation was finally allowed to die, there is a
new tendency among the average Jehovah's Witnesses toward living normal
lives. After several decades of having stretched the "generation" all the way
up to 80 years, Brooklyn is now working extremely hard to convince the
Witnesses that whatever the "generation" means it is an extremely short one,
again the "end" is very near, and the "sense of urgency" phrase is utilized to
its fullest. With all of their "carrots" in the form of some time frame gone, now
remains only the "stick" with which the average Witness must be prodded into
action and a constant repetition of how "urgent" the "time" is, are used as
never before in the Watchtower.
Of course after all the time on this same poor "spiritual diet" the Witnesses are
almost immune to this constant yelling about the "end", after over 100 years of
this, the Watchtower Society continues the mindless tradition of other
fundamentalists in repeating the mantra from 2000 years ago about the "end
drawing close".
"A sense of urgency moves Jehovah's Witnesses to be zealous in
their ministry, as seen in their spending a total of 1,096,065,354 hours
in 1994 preaching to their neighbors, making return visits, and
conducting 4,701,357 Bible studies."
Watchtower, January 1. 1995, page 17,18.
One can hardly imagine a less productive way to spend ones time. An activity
so utterly void of any possible value is difficult to find. Living a life as a victim
constantly on the prowl to create and accumulate new victims of the same
fraud is indeed tragic.
"Guard Your Sense of Urgency
WHAT is one sure, God-approved way to keep on serving Jehovah
whole-souled? It is to have a genuine sense of urgency deep in our
hearts. To serve God in a whole-souled manner means to serve him
with the whole of our being, and it requires earnest, implicit obedience
to everything he asks us to do." Watchtower, October 1. 1995, page
25.
Yeah sure, "implicit obedience" to a bunch of men who in their own senseless
stupidity has gulled you into thinking that "serving Jehovah" is synonymous
with peddling totally hopeless literature to an unsuspecting public.
"Guard Your Sense of Urgency
It is difficult, however, to put our heart and soul into our service to
God if we do not have a feeling of urgency deep within ourselves or if
the sense of urgency we once had has now become dull-perhaps lost
altogether. Today, we live in a time of urgency unparalleled by any
other period in man's history." Watchtower, October 1. 1995, page
26.
According to the Watchtower, when has there NOT been "a time of urgency
unparalleled by any other period in man's history!"? Isn't this the very same
nonsense as Peter was advertising about 2000 years ago?
"Guard Your Sense of Urgency
Some might raise the logical question, Why was a sense of urgency
needed back then if the foretold "great tribulation" was centuries
away?-Matthew 24:21"
Watchtower, October 1. 1995, page 27.
Yes indeed, why? And why do you still go on about this nonsense after almost
2000 years? For how many more thousands of years will this stupidity continue
before you realize that there is never going to be any "great tribulation"?
"Guard Your Sense of Urgency
Furthermore, he knew that his disciples would themselves benefit
spiritually by maintaining a sense of urgency until his return."
Watchtower, October 1. 1995, page 27.
Can you imagine how beneficial it must be to be worked up about the
imminence of something that will never come, and which you will never
experience? How rewarding it must have been to have lived a lifetime waiting
for something that will never materialize?
To have put off an education, to have put off a career, to have put off pursuing
a talent, in short, put off having a life, used your time on endless boring
meetings and assemblies, listening to the same hopeless drivel over and over
again thousands of times!
"Guard Your Sense of Urgency
The Christian sense of urgency has served Jehovah's purpose. It has
helped Christ's disciples to carry out the progression of their
assignment according to Jehovah's unerring schedule. And so today,
looking back over nearly 2,000 years, we understand that divine
schedule more fully."
Watchtower, October 1. 1995, page 27.
Incredible. If there is one thing that hits hard and with extreme clarity it is the
fact that the Watchtower and the average Jehovah's Witness have absolutely
no clue whatsoever about the "divine schedule"! How sad a spectacle this is.
"Guard Your Sense of Urgency
Yes, the God-stimulated sense of urgency had a wonderfully
encouraging effect.."
Watchtower, October 1. 1995, page 28.
Yes, it had a very stimulating effect in 1874, in 1914, in 1925 and 1975, but
immediately after these failures it had the opposite effect.
"Guard Your Sense of Urgency
The Lord Jesus said that his disciples would be like "sheep amidst
wolves," and he knew the need for us to keep a determined, fixed
view in order to combat the world. Yes, we have been safeguarded,
protected by our Christian sense of urgency.-Matthew 10:16.
Watchtower, October 1. 1995, page 28.
Sigh.
"Guard Your Sense of Urgency
Jehovah God in his infinite wisdom has always given his servants
enough information for them to keep their sense of urgency alive."
Watchtower, October 1. 1995, page 28.
Good grief. What information? If there is one thing the Watchtower Society
has demonstrated beyond any reasonable doubt, it must be it's inability to
understand anything related to the Bible. It's total ignorance screams from
every page of the Watchtower.
"Guard Your Sense of Urgency
Yes, a godly sense of urgency is an integral part of whole-souled
service to Jehovah. It wards off and helps thwart the Devil's attempts
to cause God's servants to "get tired and give out in [their] souls."
(Hebrews 12:3) For all eternity, whole-souled devotion will cause
Jehovah's servants to obey him, but now, in these pre-Armageddon
days, a deep, genuine sense of urgency is an essential part of
whole-souled devotion. May Jehovah our God help all of us to guard
our sense of urgency while we continue to echo the words of the
apostle John: "Amen! Come, Lord Jesus."-Revelation 22:20."
Watchtower, October 1. 1995, page 28.
Godly sense of urgency? What on earth has this got to do with God? And here
I thought that thousand years is as one day For God, so how can he possibly
have a sense of urgency?
"A Time to Keep Awake
The need to keep awake is more critical than it has ever been. Jehovah
has revealed to us "the things that must shortly take place," and we
should respond with an absorbing sense of urgency.-Revelation 1:1;
11:18; 16:14, 16." Watchtower, November 1. 1995, page 20.
The incredibly silly idea that "keeping awake" includes running around
shouting about doom and gloom and yelling about some "end" to be imminent
is totally ridiculous. The amazing inability to learn and comprehend the simple
fact that something that was declared to "shortly take place" 2000 years ago,
and still hasn't occurred has lost all meaning. It is indeed a great tragedy to
watch this total waste of time and energy that is caused by the Brooklyn lead
multinational con operation.
Norm.
