trying to convince my wife not to confess...

by wafflesandpancakes 52 Replies latest social relationships

• 

  wafflesandpancakes

  during our engagement, we fooled around and touch each other down there. It's not a "tap" but definitely is not "stimulation". I tried to convince my wife, who, after 5 years of marriage, strangely felt guilty all the sudden, that its not do called porneia. Well i am fading and shes still in, so thats probably why i'm not guilt ridden.

  All the articles the gb provide seem to say that other that oral, anal, and vaginal penetration, masturbating another person is what can be classified ad porneia.

  Again, my wife came up with some creative questions i cannot really answer so i tried to find sources on this from their own governing body but now i am confused.

  Below is the excerpt from a letter to elders.

  WT says “Immoral use of” is not just touching but operating, manipulating, or employing something. To touch a musical instrument differs from making “use of” it. “Lewd intent” identifies motive. A doctor may manipulate genitals for examining . A vet, farmer, rancher may touch animals without sexual intent. “Manipulation” is operating something by hands or otherwise, doesn’t require skin-to-skin contact.

  Momentarily touching another’s genitals, even if intentional, would generally not be considered porneia.

  My question is, what does it mean a doctor may need to manipulate a patient's genital? after reading this i am not sure i understand english well.

  Also, what is making use of a musical instrument? let say i hit two notes of a piano, am i making use of it? Isnt a musical instrument supposedly used to make music?

  thanks!!
• 

  Hortenzie

  Ask her what does she think it will accomplish? It will only bring embarrassment to you two, and it won't solve anything. Guilt she should bring to God and ask him forgiveness on the bases of Jesus's sacrifice. And bring it to her attention that confession is a Catholic teaching and not based on the Bible. Hopefully that will help.
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  Crazyguy

  Totally agree with Hortenzie, one can confess and ask for forgiveness from God and does not need to go to the elders. Not to mention you guys were engaged and in a lot of cultures engagment pretty much means you're already married so what the big deal.
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  wafflesandpancakes

  Thanks hortensia! That's what i believe too. :) but i wrote this post because i am curious about what i read in that elders letter. Anyone can help?
• 

  Comatose

  The elders book says that if it happened years in the past and the person is sorry there is no need for action. They are not going to care about something 5 years ago, its just an embarrassment they do not have a right to.
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  Hortenzie

  Sorry. Can't help you with the particulars, as I don't discuss these matters with strangers online. That would be almost as weird as talking to elders about what I did with my now-husband when we were dating .
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  OnTheWayOut

  The letter is saying that a doctor might have to "move" the genitals more than a little in order to examine them.
  Watchtower likes to load obvious examples of exceptions to the rules in here to look like they know what they are talking about.

  It won't go well for her (and you) if she goes to the elders. Tell her how she can take her sins to God and leave the elders out, otherwise she will be risking not only her judicial future but yours as well.

  Tell her how they will want her to go into details worthy of dirty magazine stories and it is all a huge embarassment, and the best she can hope for is reproof- some form of restrictions against commenting or giving talks at the meetings. Tell her she can put herself on restrictions after taking it directly to God in prayer. She can refrain from commenting for a month or so if she feels that the type of solution imposed by the elders would be necessary.
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  wafflesandpancakes

  @OnTheWayOut you have a pm.
• 

  zed is dead

  W&P,

  Listen to OTWO.

  zed
• 

  Ruby456

  waffleandpancakes asked

  WT says “Immoral use of” is not just touching but operating, manipulating, or employing something. To touch a musical instrument differs from making “use of” it. “Lewd intent” identifies motive. A doctor may manipulate genitals for examining . A vet, farmer, rancher may touch animals without sexual intent. “Manipulation” is operating something by hands or otherwise, doesn’t require skin-to-skin contact.

  Momentarily touching another’s genitals, even if intentional, would generally not be considered porneia.

  My question is, what does it mean a doctor may need to manipulate a patient's genital? after reading this i am not sure i understand english well.

  Also, what is making use of a musical instrument? let say i hit two notes of a piano, am i making use of it? Isnt a musical instrument supposedly used to make music?

  thanks!!

  I think WT are possibly trying to reassure parents and child carers, who have written in for clarification, that there are different kinds of touch genitals. WT are also probably responding to those who believe that elders and ministerial servants often brush up against sisters or touch their breasts at the meetings (this happens a lot). THose accused always deny that there was any sexual intent although there may have been some music

  the sort of genintal touching that you describe that happened between you and your partner is a little different (as you have said) and the fact that your wife is now concerned shows that she is beginning to doubt that you were ever a good person especially as you are fading. I don't think there is any danger form the elders if she confesses provided that what she confesses is as you have said. The real issue is between you and your wife. In my own case my husband still doubts that I am a good person as one who is good person goes to all meetings and shares in the ministry. She has to learn to live (and live well) with herself and with you in your new role as a fader.

  Tell her that your love spilled over and that you are not ashamed of anything. show her the song of solomon and tell her you will do the same if and when the elders calll on you.